Drone armor, hardened?, does drone armor act as vehicle armor? Options

[Viewer666]

Prior to adding weapons, armor, and modifying the powerplant the little skimmer disk is not military.

The damage system being the way it is, if a vehicle and be hurt at all, it probably will be. Let's just take a nice even vehicle with a 4 BOD and 6 points of armor and call it an armored truck or armored car. Since damage from all weapons not using AV ammo has the power of the round dived by two and the damage level lowered by 1. So any weapon that has a power of doesn't do at least 13M damage is not going to touch it. Oddly enough that means heavy machine guns, 1 kg of c12, etc. Very few weapons will damage it. The Barrett 121 will, grenades up close, some lasers, assault cannon, etc. Since the minimum power of any weapon is 2, let's say the attack happens, hits with 2 successes, base damage of 14S. The vehicle resists damage at 2M, compare success, apply the damage. The weapon using AV rounds would have a base attack of 11S.

With the idea of the A10 you have an armored jet that is made to fly while damaged. By Shadowrun rules anything 8M base damage with AV rounds will take it down quite easily.

[BitBasher]

That's why I altered AV ammo in all weapons so that it was still dropped in wound level by one (It only makes a small hole, and is not explosive) but the vehicle still gets full armor aginst it. This works wonderful for not having armored vehicles explode when sneezed on. I also have vehicles roll body plus half armor (round up) to resist damage. On the other side of the coin vehicles tend to have a little less armor in my game because they have a max of body*3 or body*4 armor, I can't remember which off the top of my head, but I think it was 4.

[TinkerGnome]

[Viewer666]

Huh and here I though that vision modifiers like range, sensor quality, etc all mattered for gunnery. Rating 1 sensors and rating 4 sensors have vastly different qualities. I could swear that I remember that resolution was an issue based the rating of the sensors.

[TinkerGnome]

[The White Dwarf]

nt

[Viewer666]

Tinkergnome I was referring the clarity of the image that different level of sensors would have.

Whitedwarf. No mater how you cut, it the same piece of cake. You're trying to argue semantics of the same issue. Both are in the rules and can be used. So what's the issue? So you're GM won't let you design a drone from scratch, BFD alter one in use already. Get over it. You're drawing straws to have some sort of argument. Besides that, you'd be saving money. Buying a security drone cost more than modifying one. It's all the same thing. The only difference is the level of shop you need to build it. Customization typically takes a small shop than a full build. But then you know that, don't you?

Also, I would never leave a drone in storage that I wanted to use for support. That's like letting your guards sleep on duty. You don’t rack a drone you plan on using.

As to the rules, skimmers, etc. What's not to understand? You do the reading on a BOD 1 drone and figure out how much armor you put on it. Since you didn't already know that, I'm sure it's YOU who needs to be reading the rules.

And the last issue. I don't think my comment was out of line. You're the one who said your GM wouldn't let you design drones and you seem to insist that your game has any bearing on the rest of our games. And now you come back and try to say that because Lone Star will respond to an armored drone we shouldn't use them? Like they don't respond to a group of armed runners killing people, looting, and committing general mayhem? Suffice it to say we (we being the runners and GMs here) know that. We implement things as we normally do.

Now if you take offense at what I said, I'll tell you one thing and ask you another. First I'll tell you that you need to get thicker skin. Second, let me ask you something. If I said "I'm sorry for those bastards who drinking red wine, taking Tylenol 3, and dropping Fen-Phen for weight loss all at once and I wish them all the best in agonizing death." Would that bother you? No, I really doubt it would. Because it either applies to you and you know what's happening or it doesn't apply to you and you're reading into the comment.

[Kagetenshi]

Drones in a rack are not disassembled. The entire point of a rack is to keep them ready for rapid deployment, so you would most certainly rack a drone you were going to use for support.

~J

[Viewer666]

Compare putting a steel lynx in a rack and getting it ready to a steel lynx with a 4 point harness to the base of a van with a power line. Which is going to be read in less time? I'd say the steel lynx with the harness that's ready to go.

[The White Dwarf]

nt

[Kagetenshi]

[TinkerGnome]

As near as I can tell, drone racks are meant for aerial deployment of drones. I think the Rigger 3 description even says as much. What, exactly, are you strapping to the steel lynx to get it airborne?

[Viewer666]

Whitedwarf:

Right dude, whatever. You must be right. I emphasize the must portion of that. I stated there was a difference, it's not huge. After all it's design and redesign. Like the difference between a Jetta and Jetta hooked up for street racing. The end result is pretty much the same, that is it's a Jetta that's been designed for a particular purpose. Did you know that you can customize during creation? So go ahead and speak in double talk, inflated statements, etc. The point is, you can use a drone for exactly what I said. You can use it as a support troops, you can use it as a massively armored flyer, etc. There are also 2 ways to get your drone up to that level of performance. You can find one you want, or you can make it. So give it a rest. You worse than Gray Davis, when the overall point is that you still lost. So feel free to argue one little point if that makes you feel better. I for one don't care in the slightest.

I'd like you clarify some points. First when did I say, "skimmers are worse" and not go into context? Second what does set up and break down time have to do with a drone that is already set up and ready to go? Third how is using an armored drone going to bring in LoneStar any more than a set of runners blasting away at one of the Corps? Forth, what examples are you trying to figure out? If you could mention that much, we'd be able to figure out what you're talking about. Lastly, is there some rule or set of rules you're unclear on? Or perhaps need explained? I really that you missing something here, at least about the BOD 1 drones and armor.

Suffice it to say that I'm positive that you'll continue on with what you feel is a valid point, you'll continue to state general comments that we've already stated and that you'll continue to try and hide facts to make it sound like you're making a good point. You' said as much already that you're not going to bring up points (however valid) that don't support you side. This is a game, not a court case. Now you go making veiled threats. Read what I typed, not what you want to read.




Well alrighty then.

Kagetenshi, according to my book the main use for a drone rack is launching flying drones. To add to that though, my point of a rapid deployment drone is still valid. I wasn't the one harping on about drone set up time. Which for the most part everyone agreed wasn’t an issue for a rapid deployment drones.

I'm sure all but one of us is in agreement that you can use a drone for back up, you can set it to be ready in almost no time, you can use it for door to door combat (steel lynx and a skimmer at least), you don't have to worry about any weapons short of AV ones and massive damage non AV rockets and autocannons (over 20D). And that even if you GM won't allow you to DESIGN a good drone you can MODIFY to good enough. However that one person may have just been putting rules statements and may indeed agree with the above facts.

[Game2BHappy]

JFC. Stop feeding each other already. :|

Set-up Breakdown time (pg. 62, R3):
It looks like this is the time needed to break it down for storage or reconfigure it after storage. A dissassembled drone only takes up 1/3 the normal CF for storage. Even if they are not "broken down", they need one Combat Turn to warm up.

Note: Reading the first paragraph of that section might suggest that the Set-Up time is required for "configuration" regardless of whether it was "broken down" or not. Check it out and decide for yourself.

Drone Rack (p.151, R3):
As was stated by T-Gnome-san, normal drone racks are for aerial vehicles. However, IMO, if your ground drone can't get in and out of the car on its own it could benefit from a drone rack or one of its many variants under the same name. I would definitely consider a device that holds a Steel Lynx to the underside of a van for quick release to be a drone rack.

[Kagetenshi]

[TinkerGnome]

I do agree that you should be able to do something akin to a drone rack for launching wheeled drones, but it probably falls under either the special equipment heading (ramps, etc) or the extra entry/exit points heading (small drones droped from a "porthole" on the bottom for instance or the steel lynx rolling out of a "drone door" in the back of the van). The drone rack itself seems designed to launch the arial drones and move them about in a close-quarters hangar. Wheeled/tracked drones should be capable of doing most of that themselves.

[The White Dwarf]

Sigh, you still see it as right and wrong. Its not about some personal victory its about figuring out how SR works. Your editing of previous posts removed anything I could quote, aside from your recent post stating:
"the overall point is that you still lost. So feel free to argue one little point if that makes you feel better. I for one don't care in the slightest."
If you dont care why try to prove you won....

As Ive said before, if you claim something post an example, in this case of how this "tank skimmer" would work. The only listed skimmer in the pre-revised R3 has enough load to have armor 1. If you in fact meant "some flying drone" by the word skimmer, and not an actual skimmer, that opens the field. The Mini-Blimp can get up to armor 4ish. Some of the UAVs could get higher ratings, making them tankish, such as the Wajinda. However its also very expensive, meaning if it *does* get hit your out tons of cash, and also its profile as a jet affects its operation (ie it cant hover like a helicopter and fire every round). The Rotary wing UAVs such as the MCT Rotodrone can sustain heavier armor, but with the sensor rating and pilot ratings of 1 will not have much effect, and they dont have the space to support both sensors and weapons upgrades. Which leaves the VT UAVs as possible tanks. The Ares Guardian is the obvious choice, as its the only one that really has what it takes to be a tank: armor weapons sensors etc. It also costs 99k at creation, double that mid game. Also it has no setup/breakdown time. But it also brings even more issues than the Lynx to the table. As a VT vehicle it cant even be parked silently. Just turning it on to do anything at all will grab everyones attention. While perhaps more versatile in the role of "drone tank" its also even *more* likely to attract trouble, if thats possible.

What I meant about using the drone and drawing attention is that while gunfire will obivously get attention, pistols can be hidden and silenced. Runners can hide in the building, and use the Stealth skill outside. The drone has none of these advantages. Its obvious, big, and has no stealth. Just parking it outside can get you in more trouble if a cop simply looks at it than a group of 6 runners would walking down the street with 1mil in illegal cyber and decks under their trenchs. It adds a new dimension to "how can we do this without getting caught" because it offers such a little chance to move undetected.

I couldnt find many other drones that have the room to be modified to be used as such, in a way that avoids these kinds of issues. Which means that to employ a heavily armored drone you sacrifice a measure of anonymity. From most of what Ive read on these forums, that is enough alone to deter most from emplyoing them to use as such. Rather than making the case you cant do it (which other than the 2 listed drones you mostly cant, but that aside) Im trying to say that while its there to use, the role play context of the majority of runs prevents its use in a way thats unbalacing (due to high armor). The reason something like the Lynx or the Assualt Cannon can exist in game but not throw it out of whack with their obvious power is due to circumstances like this.

Thus, while the game mechanics of the drones seem very good, the difficulty of using one balances that out. If theres a situation or combination that shows otherwise, post it.

[Kagetenshi]

Mostly just covering an escape. Once you're on your way out, unless response time is amazingly fast, you no longer have to be quiet. You roll out the heavy drones, cut your teammates an extra doorway, and get out of there before anyone realizes quite what happened. There are other ways that drones can be used, too, which I'll go into if you really want me to, but the point that was being made was that these drones were unbalanced, which I can't agree with due to the limitations you mentioned, which, while extensive, aren't quite as bad as you make them out to be but are still more than enough to balance them.
*Gasps for air*

~J

[The White Dwarf]

Rofl *hands you oxygen mask*. True, depending on how you plan on getting the drones out they could be used for the "getaway" phase of the plan. I agree they have many uses, I just couldnt really come up with one that made use of the (not really) outrageous armor ratings. Perhaps using one for a distraction is an idea, but its something that will likley result in the team having to write off one tank-drone. Part of the equation depends on how easily the bad guys can track a drone I suppose. If they have AOD rounds on hand for excaping criminals and tag the drone with one, thats bad. Of if they have drones of their own, or watcher spirits to follow it. But if all they have is guys on foot there is little they could do against a flying drone, perhaps. Grid Guide might be an issue for trying to escape in a truck/van/car after picking up a hot drone, as it can track fairly well and is hard enough to hack to make it a consideration.

[Viewer666]

To everyone else:

Sorry about posting late, I've been busy to say the least.

White Dwarf:

It's no one fault but your own that you are sorely lacking in the knowledge required to keep up with the conversation. To help you though I'd have your reference the rules on armor. To start with, a BOD drone can mount a 1 point of armor for a mere 5kg (BODxBODx5). You load on 6 points of armor and now only AV weapons and anything packing 14+ power will be able to hurt said drone. With an engine modification you can get even more armor than that.

If you have any more valid questions be sure to post them.