Safe houses in SR4 Options

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[fool]

in the fictional account at the beginning of one of the chapters, the team is holed up in their regular safe house, a wharehouse.
So are they paying 500/d or is that considered one of their players lifestyle?
I'd go with it being a seperate lifestyle one of the sharacters pays for.... i.e. you are allowed different lifestyles. I'd imagine that lifestyles in the barrens would be cheaper to get than downtown seattle.

[James McMurray]

Since you can only buy one lifestyle, that has to be a 500/day hideout.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Or a hideout that is aquired somehow and appliances and food are bought in advance.

[fool]

so if I have a high lifestyle, does that include multiple dosses spread thoughout the plex?
Or does your lifestyle only include one place?
The Sprawl survival guide had good rules for such things, but it was just too much lawyering/bookkeeping.

[Big D]

That's where it breaks down--it shouldn't cost $500/day to maintain a single safehouse when not in use, but it doesn't make sense to allow unlimited safehouses for that amount.

It's possible that they're trying to abstract safehouses out of the game, so that there are no prepared safehouses at all, and the runners find and use them on the fly. That would make the $500/day make more sense. However, that would seem to be far too much abstraction; things like location and the nature of the threat would be too specific to abstract away, and the team needs to know where to go if they get separated.

[hyzmarca]

Well, if you pay a team enough they can afford to maintain 10 safehouses at 15,000 :nuyen: per month and still have plenty left over for other expenses. If you pay the team enough.

[FanGirl]

I think that there's an important caveat that people are ignoring:

[Kremlin KOA]

one other point
this adds to the 'why shadowrun' arguement

Bear with me

you get your (6 man team for the numbers here but it works from 3 man up)

all to move in to a single place which is a high lifestyle
cost 15000 a month
the 5 who are not primary on the lease each maintain a 6 man low lifestyle
cost 3000 per month x 5 or 15000 per month

you rent 4 of those out and get back 60000 per month at full occupancy
but most likely gonna get 2/3 occupancy so 40000 per month

You all live high lifestyle, you got 10k between ya per month to spend on upgrades and suchlike
the magicians make wards for extra cash
the weapons spec makes guns for cash
etc etc
you make 2-3 times what ya would running with less than half the risk... AND you got an extra safehouse waiting for ya when ya need it

[coolgrafix]

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

2/3 occupancy?

*snerk*

That's not a safehouse - that's a hotel, with Yellow Page listings et al.


Frankly, at least the "safehouse rental" idea justifies the knowledge: safehouses skill that's been in the game for at least 2 versions. (Even if it doesn't make much sense beyond that.)

Personally, I've always thought there were two kinds of safehouses: the one YOU have (with whatever defenses you can devote to it,) and the one you can get from a fixer (which might even include additional guards, wards, etc., IF you're willing to shell out the extra cash.)

[Kremlin KOA]

but safehouses as a business are Canon in 4th ed RAW

2/3 isn't THAT unreasonable, considering the number of newbie runners that get themselves in serious trouble

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Sure, but at that rate (given that reason,) lots of these guys are going to be checking in to a safehouse that's still getting the bloodstains hosed out.

Besides, the 2nd type of safehouse I listed would be the 'pro' type - but I wouldn't expect most of them to have a permanent presence anywhere...unless they're for corp/government personnel.

[coolgrafix]

This just doesn't make any sense. It's true that most of the SR4 sample characters have a Safe Houses knowledge skill, but it's unclear what the hell it's supposed to be used for since that skill is not one of the example knowledge skills from the Skills chapter.

It's also true that SR3 featured an identical skill, but it also failed to explain any possible uses for it. In fact, the SR3 explanation of Safehouses (as a concept, not a skill) discusses safehouses only in the following context...

[coolgrafix]

Which brings me back around to...

[James McMurray]

Wouldn't safehouse knowledge tell you about safe houses? What's the confusion? If it's safe house related, the knowledge skill can tell you about it: good locations for creating one, who to talk to in order to find one, which ones have a history of ratting out their clientele, etc.

The problem with the safe houses skill is that there's nothing stopping non runners from having it as well. Just 15 cops with the skill at 3 would probably have a pretty good chance of tracking down and finding all of the possible locations for someone to hide, as well as identifying the known sources for "freelance safehousery."

And of course, if you've ever let the party track someone down who is in hiding by using legwork, you should also allow it for the opposition. Cops and corporate hit squads have contacts too, so in order to really hide you're best off sticking with high loyalty contacts or doing it on your own. Preferably in another city altogether, where the opposition is less likely to have well connected friends.

[coolgrafix]

[James McMurray]

The dice rolls required for finding a specific safe house would be a lot harder than the ones required just to find yourself one to hide out in for a day or two. Exhaustive searches of all safe houses would take forever and still not be gauranteed to find the right one, especially if the people hiding move around. Possible, but not as easy as just "I look everywhere," unless the people you're looking for are easy to track already. And at 500/day you probably won't be using them very long. :)

[coolgrafix]

[Kremlin KOA]

best ever safehouse data I found

the old rules for Coffin Hotels

Bought one as a permantnt squatter lifestyle in Sr3 for each char I made
(often had a few)

spare gun
spare armour
spare (appropriate gear for char type)
spare toothbrush
spare toothpaste
soap
towel
8)
you strip me naked and leave me in the barrens
tomorrow I will befully equipped and hunting your ass

[fool]

I kinda thought that the safehouse knowledge skill was mopre for finding an empty tenemant or wharehouse, that type of thing where you can hide out immediately. The whole safe house as a service thing kinda bugs me.
So does buying the permenant cofin hotel count as a lifestyle? I'd say yeah.
Nice idea btw gonna have to steal that one.
If you can only have one lifestyle, doesnt that kinda make permenant lifestyles obsolete... i mean whats the pint of bying a permenant low or squatter lifestyle?
I'd probably go wiht something like one lifestyle per SIN (yeah I know lots of simless have lifestyles I'm just throwing out an idea.()

[James McMurray]

There is really no point to buying a permanent squatter lifestyle. I personally don't even think that's possible. What are you doing, paying some guy to sleep in your corner of the abandoned warehouse all the time?

Buying a permanent low lifestyle means that after 100 months you're no longer paying for the roof over your head or the food you eat. 20,000 bucks for the ability to never pay bills again is something I'd do if I could, if I didn't have kids. After you've got it paid off your excess cash goes towards making it feel better than a low lifestyle by buying a bunch of cool household accessories like video game systems, high end trideo, and a french maid.

[Kremlin KOA]

dude 10 gand to OWN a sngle coffin in a coffin hotel
not a bad deal

[James McMurray]

Do you really expect to need to spend 334 nights in a coffin hotel in your career? And if so, what happens when someone finds out you bought it?

[James McMurray]

Actually, squatter lifestyle is 500 per month. Buying that will be 50,000, not 10,000. That means you'll have to spend 1,667 nights there in order to just barely make it worthwhile.