 Safe houses in SR4 |
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 May 9 2006, 10:36 PM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116  |
I submitted the issue to Rob Boyle at FanPro and he was gracious enough to address the question thusly:
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May 9 2006, 11:03 PM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Well, I guess that takes care of this thread.
All that's left is to figure "reasonable" costs for different types of safehouses. :) |
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May 10 2006, 01:11 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 20-April 06 From: La Islas de Republica de Bananas (Philippines) Member No.: 8,488 |
Just for clarification, I have to pay rental + association dues + electricity + water + phone bills for the two condo units I rent every month, whether or not I use the place. Safe houses should be available as "alternate" lifestyles.
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May 10 2006, 01:16 AM
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#54
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
But you don't pay for another transportation, groceries, on-demand entertainment (pretty much everything in the future), nor do you pay the typical price for electricity, water, and phone (unless you're a package deal kinda guy) - you pay the minimum for them. That said, I can see charging full lifestyle costs to represent money spent making given safehouse a fleshed out life (thus making it seem like a normal person residence rather than a safehouse).
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May 10 2006, 01:21 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 20-April 06 From: La Islas de Republica de Bananas (Philippines) Member No.: 8,488 |
Exactly, I keep groceries in those places (just in case I need to eat there) and I do sleep in both places once in a while (averaging 2-3 nights a month). It's really a matter of convenience for me. That said, I always make sure that there is gas (for the kitchen), the phone, electricity, and water bills are paid. There is food in the ref/freezer, the cable TV is hooked up, etc. etc. I end up paying a pretty large chunk of money for both places, almost as much as I pay for my regular digs. |
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May 10 2006, 02:04 AM
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#56
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
two condo units? Something we should know about your private life or jobs? ;-) Is one of them a safe house? :-P |
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May 10 2006, 02:17 AM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
EDIT: Nevermind.
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May 10 2006, 08:12 PM
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#58
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Having expanded "lifestyle" to incorporate eating out, getting a taxi, and all that good stuff is kind of handy... a lot of my players have upgraded from the typical SR3 "Low" lifestyle to Medium or High simply because it has in-game perks of not having to pay for incidentals. I've got this one player who's sticking with Low because the other players always end up saying "hey, the cost of this meal is included in my lifestyle"... I should figure out some other kind of perk to wave at him.
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May 11 2006, 01:47 AM
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#59
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316 |
I dunno, lifestyle should reflect the level it's bought at... middle lifestyle (irl at least) doesn't allow you to eat out all the time, let alone at anythinhg considered a good restaurant.
I like the idea of having an extra apartment/ dosss/ hideyhole somewhere or three. I'll have to negotiate those with the other peopole in my group. I'd still like some answer as to what the safehouses skill does. |
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May 11 2006, 01:58 AM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 314 Joined: 25-February 06 Member No.: 8,307 |
I see 2 kinds of safehouses, yours and theirs. The Safehouses skill should allow you to locate one of theirs that's available and in your area (for a fee, of course) Maybe extra hits reduce the fee, or help you find one "nicer" for the same cost?
If it's yours, then you pay for it with lifestyle (which I'm allowing in my game). |
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May 11 2006, 02:14 AM
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#61
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Safehouses skill is like a Nightclubs skill. It lets you in on the buzz about certain places, what to look for in a good safehouse, and how to spot a fake.
Example? The team mage is unconscious after a raid on a Yakuza warehouse, where they've picked up a stray meat puppet and maybe a tail. They need to hideout for a little while where the Yakuza doesn't have much influence (+ Yakuza Politics), they can access medical treatment to help the mage and defrag the joytoy (+ Shadow Clinics), and a location with good tactical advantage to spot their tail (+ Safehouses). It's sort of a team test, since the skills are spread from the gunbunny to the face. However, due to the complex nature, I'm running each one separate. The Face rolls her Yakuza Politics + Intuition, scoring 2 hits. The GM tells her, "You know the Yaks are afraid to hit the docks and don't have much influence or informants around the Aztech complex. They've been in an arms race in Renton and Redmond, lately, as well." The Gunbunny rolls her Shadow Clinics + Logic, scoring another 2 hits. The GM says, "You know a mafia doc in Renton and a backdoor bodyshop near the Pyramid. There might be a doctor you can call in, for a little extra." Then the Cover Ops rolls Shafehouses + Intuition, scoring 4 hits. The GM says, "There's a bunch of crap holes in Renton, many free of charge. There's a pretty secure cargo ship on the docks that sells its services as a stash house, but for a price they might let you stay for a time. And there's a coffin hotel right in the Pyramid's shadow that stowes Azzie rebels, outfitting them for Denver ops. They're not very open to outsiders, but rumors say that the owner hates Baroka Parlors, so you may be able to push that angle." The skill could also let you find safehouses run by 'enemies', such as "the FBI is rumored to have a safehouse in Everett - maybe even the old Holden Street Mansion, though that seems unlikely." |
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May 11 2006, 01:00 PM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 20-April 06 From: La Islas de Republica de Bananas (Philippines) Member No.: 8,488 |
Nah, it's just that travel time between the school where I teach and home and my other job (in a resto) is often marred by heavy traffic, so I got a place near the school and a place near the resto just in case of heavy traffic. |
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May 11 2006, 05:55 PM
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#63
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Man... living in Seattle has my concept of "Cost of Living" all screwed up. The mean price for a place to live in this COUNTY is now $420,000. Condos in outlying areas go for about 1k a square foot, with the ones downtown being easily 3-5x that. The concept of maintaining a condo near each job you work in case traffic is bad sounds really appealing...
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May 11 2006, 08:06 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 314 Joined: 25-February 06 Member No.: 8,307 |
Dude! That was an awesome example! I will definitely yoink some of that flavor for my game! 8) |
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Jun 9 2006, 04:59 AM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 8,332 |
If the guy has a low lifestyle, the only place that he can eat at, and have it covered by lifestyle, is McQ's. Everyone else gets a "free" meal at Applebee's, but he's got to pay. |
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Jun 9 2006, 07:43 AM
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#66
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
The price of safehouse arrangements will vary greatly.
- safehouse type: fortress style or hiding hole - enemy: from what kind of tracing measures are you hiding? is your face known by the public? - one-shot costs more than the long-term setup, but the later looses safety with each use One-Shot Your fixer provides an apropiate place and makes all necessary arrangements with the local authorities (gangs, syndicates, law enforcement). Professional fixers will also provide you with equipment and supplies needed on such occasions. DIY: You find a flat, make any arrangements yourself, and be done with. Safety depends on the barrier between your normal life and the secondary lifestyle. Money not spend on living amenities covers the price of simulating a normal life (ie. updating credit history for your imaginary run) All things considered, we allow for secondary lifestyles at full cost, while the cost for safehouses varys greatly. 500¥ might just be a bargain price... |
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Jun 9 2006, 05:29 PM
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#67
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The annoying thing is that other players cover taking him out to dinner. It'd probably work for me to inform them that they're going to pay out of pocket for it (instead of him) if they want to do that... after all, he isn't part of their lifestyle. Mostly, it's just a little bit of annoyance that I'm having difficulty conveying to this player that his lifestyle is more than a monthly expense. I'm considering having one of my PCs get their house robbed as an adventure intro. It'd make sense for the only guy with a low lifestyle to have the greatest security risk... |
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Jun 9 2006, 05:39 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 |
But at a Low lifestyle, most thieves would also assume he's got nothing of value to steal. Of course, if the thief in question is targeting the running team specifically... |
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Jun 9 2006, 06:12 PM
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#69
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Doesn't matter. Most thieves are just after a quick buck and they are not going to go trapsing around Poshville, with a long race back to safety, from cops that actually care, with gear they'll have more trouble fencing and sticking out in the neighbourhood like a troll in your ice-cream. He's especially likely to get knocked over if people know that someone out of the ordinary is living there. He only has to get picked up by his friends in their Eurocar Westwind once and it'll be like sending up flares. Living with a high-income in a low-income neighbourhood is asking for it. And yes, he might not be the sort of person that the thieves will want to get caught by, but thieves always reckon on not getting caught. That's why they try. It's true that the master-thiefs aren't going to be knocking off a low-rent place on the off-chance, but then the real master thieves aren't pulling random jobs anyway. They're going after things that they already know are there and have a buyer for. Random burglary is something you do because you have to and it happens primarily in poor neighbourhoods. |
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Jun 9 2006, 06:21 PM
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#70
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Pretty much. Guy smashes in your window, climbs inside, and takes off with your VCR, figuring he can sell it for 20 bucks to someone.
Of course, when he gets inside and spots the 20k :nuyen: worth of stuff you've got lying around your ultra-posh "Low" lifestyle apartment, he may call a bunch of his friends to come over... |
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Jun 9 2006, 06:28 PM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
If they're doing it all the time, instead of figuring out how much to charge them out-of-pocket for every meal, you could charge a small markup on their own lifestyle payments. IIRC, the extra cost for totally supporting a guest as part of your lifestyle is 10%. They're only feeding him, not buying his clothes and such, so you'd want some number lower than that, but it'd be an approach with plenty of precedent. Let's see - other consequences of a low lifestyle? Worse security, but you covered that with the breakin idea. For a low-end lifestyle, part of your security expenses probably come in the form of bribes / protection money to whichever gang controls the local turf. Sure, at a High lifestyle you're making the same sort of payments to Knight Errant, but Knight Errant isn't likely to decide to suddenly raise their rates in the middle of the night and come discuss it with you.... There's the whole quality-of-life issue, but it's hard to make a player who isn't already so inclined CARE about his character's food tasting bad and there being rodents in his one-room apartment. Though speaking of hygeine, there's always the disease angle...or even something as simple as, say, lice. A higher lifestyle also includes as part of its cost a better level of routine medical care - emergency care is out-of-pocket or covered by a DocWagon contract, but regular dental visits and such? Not the sort of thing you hit your PanicButton for. Oh, and you can also hit the Dress for Success side of it. If he's living a Low Lifestyle, he should be getting the hairy eyeball from certain types of people. Could even amount to penalties on social tests, though I suspect that wouldn't much faze this particular character. I'm doubting that he's your team's face... |
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Jun 9 2006, 06:44 PM
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#72
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
One way to explain paying full lifestyle costs for a safehouse is that you are actually paying lifestyle costs for cousin Brenda, her husband Tom, and their three children; Slappy, Smacky, and Sue. Of course, Brenda isn't really your cousin, Tom isn't really her husband, none of the children are related to each other, and they keep a small arsenal in the basement but the neighbors don't know that.
Of course, you'd probably have to pay the actors a salary in addition to their fake jobs so it should cost more than a lifestyle. |
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Jun 9 2006, 07:36 PM
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#73
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
If this one player isn't paying any attention to his lifestyle, well that's fine. There are people like that in real life too. In both cases, the pressure comes from those he or she associates with. When your face starts getting penalties to his negotiation rolls with the japanese johnson because of his friend in the hand me down clothes, then the other players will start nagging him. And that's how it should be. And don't forget sex, of course. Depending on age and gender of the player involved, he could get quite piqued when the girl(s) go for the others and want to ditch the sad case who keeps tagging along. Or worse - one of the other players has an interest and Homer blows it for him. If the player wants his character to be a low-living type, then that's fine. But if your player is simply treating lifestyle as a non-issue because it doesn't have a game mechanic attached, then you need to communicate the reality of things to that player. |
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Jun 9 2006, 07:47 PM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
Exactly. It's fine that a player wants to make that choice, as long as it's made apparently that there are benefits to a higher lifestyle that he's missing out on in the process of saving his cash. Or, put another way, as long as the players who are going for the high lifestyle are getting their money's worth. |
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Jun 10 2006, 11:48 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
If you want prices on buildings not lifestyles. Sprawl Sites has a list of various sized and equipped apartments.
I'm used this modifyed slightly to take into account the rise in lows cost. |
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