Bone augmentations Options

[Rooks]

Quick question, does bone density/bone lacing physical damage rating round up or down in strength is an odd number

ie I have a strength of 5 with bone density 4 damage code is str/2+3 P so does that mean 6p or 5p

[hyzmarca]

Round STR as usual and then add the modifier. Unfortunatly, I do not know which is usual.

[Edward]

I agree with hyzmarca.

Same as any other melee weapon.

Now what was it for other melee weapons.

Edward

[Signal]

You round up. 6P in your example.

[evilgenius]

Here's a related question;

Nowhere in the Bone Lacing description or in the Bone Density Augmentation description does it say you can't do both.

I mean, Dermal Plate and Orthorskin both say they're not compatible. Same with Wired reflexes and other modes of Reaction increase, same with Muscle Replacement and Muscle Aug / toner.

I mean, it makes sense to me that you can increase the density of the bones, but then also lace these newly densisified bones with a nice titanium coating.

That raises the question: What is the unarmed damage if you have both? Do you add the damage resistance dice multiple times?

just questions......

[Jhaiisiin]

Hmmm, that's a scary thought. Titanium superdense bones? Wow. Figure you might add half of the 2nd treatment to the bones in damage... So (don't have my book), if each adds 3 points to your punch damage, having both would only add 4 or 5 at max, though likely full armor bonuses. (You can only hit so hard, but if you make the item inpenetrable, it'll stop anything kinda thinking)

[Rooks]

actually only titanium lacing grants +1 impact +1 ballistic bonus not to mention the weight of the character is going to be tremendously huge like quadtruple weight, then again if your a human you'd weight the same as maybe a troll but if your a troll, maaaaan you'd kill a man just by accidently sitting on him not to mention the insanely high body stat for resistance

[Shrike30]

Under old rules, Titanium lacing used to add (iirc) 15 kg to the player weight. Plastic and kevlar were 5 kilos, Aluminum was 10, and I think Ceramic was either 10 or 15. "Quadruple" your weight? Not so much. Bone lacing doesn't even entirely replace the bones, it just builds a "lacing" of the material used into and around them to make them tougher. Think of reinforced concrete... you're not looking at a wall of rebar, just a concrete wall that's got a lacing of rebar inside of it.

[Jhaiisiin]

This does bring up another important question though. Bone lacing puts a protective sheath over your bones, to make them more durable. Bones break. Ceramic breaks. Kevlar probably just deforms. Aluminum and titanium bend. So what happens when you get hit with sufficient force to bend a laced bone? Obviously the bone inside splinters, but how do you address it? That could very easily form life-threatening clots, particularly if you have platelet factories. All manner of excruciating pain, not to mention the needed surgery just to fix the problem...

Has this ever come up and how was it handled?

[Waltermandias]

@Jhaiisiin That's never come up in our games, but I imagine that if someone is getting the kind of force needed to bend their titanium laced arm, they have bigger problems to worry about. :dead:

@Evilgenius: Weird, my friends and I were talking about this just earlier today. We saw no reason why they couldn't be combined, however we did decide, in the interests of game balance, to say that the damage bonus stacks, but only to a maximum bonus of +3. Thus you could have plastic lacing and two levels of bone density and get a +2 to damage, but if you got titanium lacing and 4 levels of density you cap out at +3.

[Shrike30]

My interpretation of this ware is really that it's a *lacing*... it provides enough structual integrity to make the bones less "brittle", but there's not so much material that an injury that's going to destroy the bone will leave these big strips of metal bent into funny shapes. Think of a screen door... metal screens are relatively tough, but if you kick them, the screening tears apart. Bone lacing is like screening around (and in) the bone, laid there by nanites. It makes the bone stronger, but it's going to tear apart along the same seams that the bone snaps.

[Shrike30]

[evilgenius]

[fistandantilus4....]

I do have a troll with both. For sanity's sake, we allow the damage resistance to stack, but not the inflicted damage. Doesn't make much sense to us that his punch should do more than his spurs, especially since you can punch/stab with a spur.

And he does weigh a lot. Guy is a beast really. I don't play him often because it just feels like cheating. Mages still put him down pretty hard though, even wit hthe magic resistant quality and maxing his will.

[Cray74]

[Rooks]

and for a troll?

[Cray74]

[Azralon]

[neko128]

[Rooks]

as is reflected by the innate armor they have

[Shrike30]

That always used to be a "dermal bone deposit" kind of deal, sort of like dermal plating. I don't believe I ever saw it explained as being a skeletal structure thing. One of the big tips towards it being dermal was that it used to count as "armor" for purposes of determining if flechette got it's +1 Damage Code (pre-SR4). Those knobbly bits we always see on the artwork of trolls would be this stuff. I wonder if bone lacing would be *visible* on trolls, due to some of this stuff basically being external...

[Cain]

[Cray74]

[Azralon]

Good points on the percentages per species and human sexes.

From those samples given and sheer guesswork, it'd seem like the beasts with greater muscular capacity are going to have more bone weight.

[Shrike30]

If the difference between average human female and average ELEPHANT is all of 4.5% of body mass, I don't think we're going to see a noticeable bump in percentage for troll.