 Firing two pistols, Scenario and questions |
  |
 Apr 11 2006, 12:16 PM
Post
#51
|
|||||||
|
Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222  |
The text you quoted says they "explode on impact". Sure you can fiddle with that and say it's just some kind of very rapid and complete fragmentation of the round, and that actually works quite well as an alternative explanation to the game effects of the ammunition, but it's quite obvious what the game designers meant for the rounds to do.
No, it wouldn't. Pyrotechnically initiated explosive small arms ammunition exists right now in the real world, and I have not heard of them ever causing failures within the weapon, even though the US Army is firing them by the million in Iraq and Afghanistan. Check out Nammo Multipurpose ammunition and Raygun's page on explosive ammo.
Neither can I. By far the most heat and shock sensitive part of the cartridge, whether FMJ or HEI, is the primer. If you happened to stand right in the middle of a large napalm canister impact, the first thing that would happen (some time after you've already been completely covered in 3rd degree burns) with the ammunition would be the primers going off, which would cause anything from a *puff* as the bullet plops off the case, to a *BANG* and the bullet flying off at a few hundred fps. |
||||||
 |
 
|
||||||
|
Apr 11 2006, 03:55 PM
Post
#52
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I thought a long time about house-ruling firing two weapons at once. I figured a rule similar to the auto-fire rules would be better. But I wont do it. Seems to me the rules work just fine as written after thinking about it. You half your chance to hit and double your potential damage output, more or less; fair I say. And it's restrictive enough that it has to be motivated by a desire to "be cool", but still without being worthless, which I like.
Wielding two pistols will give you a lot of possibilities. Let's say Agility 5 Pistols 4 = Dice pool 9 You have to hit 2 goons (as in the example by .. blakkie, right?) in plain sight, and you're behind cover. Unload both pistols at goon 1: dice pool: 9/2 = 5, -1 behind cover, no recoil = 4 to both pools Goon 2 will give you lots of penalties as we know, so lower left gun and shoot him with right gun only: dice pool: 9, -1 behind cover, -1 recoil, -2 second target, +2 smartlink = 7 And this is a good but moderately skilled runner, not a trinked out adept. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 11 2006, 07:00 PM
Post
#53
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i think it will be -2 recoil as the recoil from both guns affect your second shot...
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 11 2006, 07:39 PM
Post
#54
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
But you're not firing both guns the second shot, that's the trick see?
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 11 2006, 09:30 PM
Post
#55
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ugh, i hate how the new recoil rules a deceptively similar to the old one, yet to very diffrent!
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 11 2006, 09:37 PM
Post
#56
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The new recoil rules are really simple: the first round's free. Every round you fire after the first (that's uncomped) applies a -1 to the test you're making with it.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 11 2006, 10:01 PM
Post
#57
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
yes its very simple. but its diffrent from what i have trained my brain to think when it comes to SR recoil :P
i have a feel that i will have many more "duh!" moments before the brain have been reprogramed ;) |
|
|
|
|
Apr 12 2006, 04:56 AM
Post
#58
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 30-May 02 From: South Jersey Member No.: 2,798 |
I just made up a character with cyber forearms with a cyberarm gyromount in each. He has Automatics specialized in SMGs, and is shooting Ingram Smartgun Xs. Agility is 6, Automatics is 6 (+2 SMGs), and there's 6 points of recoil compensation. There's also tracers in the gun with the EX, which can be useful. He's going to make out pretty well.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 12 2006, 04:58 AM
Post
#59
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
You forgot Improved Ability 3 and reflex recorders. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 12 2006, 05:41 PM
Post
#60
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Might as well stick tracers in both guns, too.
Here's a question for you... if you're doing "suppressive fire" with a SMG in each hand, does it only burn 10 rounds from each gun (to make the total of 20 rounds fired) or does it burn 20 from both and let you "suppress" twice? |
|
|
|
|
Apr 12 2006, 11:20 PM
Post
#61
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 30-May 02 From: South Jersey Member No.: 2,798 |
As you can see, there's already tracers in there. :D |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 12 2006, 11:37 PM
Post
#62
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 30-May 02 From: South Jersey Member No.: 2,798 |
I would go with option 2, meaning that it would burn 20 bullets from each gun, and let you suppress twice. Although, you'd still have to split the dice pool in half. You could, however, suppress two different areas (at a -2 for "different targets"), or suppress the same area twice, giving you the chance to do more damage. Lastly, you could just take turns suppressing the same area with the guns, letting you get your whole pool each time, and also letting you suppress for twice as long.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:16 AM
Post
#63
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
It won't be easy to change the ammo clips while holding 2 SMGs :D.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 10:17 AM
Post
#64
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 30-May 02 From: South Jersey Member No.: 2,798 |
I don't see changing clips as being a problem. They'll all be dead by then anyway. :P
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 06:32 PM
Post
#65
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I misread your original line "There's also tracers in the gun with the EX" to mean that one gun had EX, the other did not, since I don't recall you specifying the use of EX prior to that sentence.
Reloading 2 SMGs isn't hard, in game... simple action to holster A, free to eject smart mag, simple to load a new one (end one phase), simple to holster B, simple to draw A, free to eject mag (end two phase), simple to load new mag, simple to draw B, free to yell "BRING IT ON!" (end three phase). 3 seconds, if you've got Wired 2 :) |
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 06:38 PM
Post
#66
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Or you could just drop them and quick draw 2 more. If you're the type of character that likes to empty SMGs you'll probably want to invest in some backups for just such an occassion.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:09 PM
Post
#67
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
"The exited through the front door, and found themselves facing six men with guns drawn. It was a fuckin' ambush. There was a firefight..."
"What if it was just one guy with six guns?" "Why don't you let me do the thinking, genius?" |
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:32 PM
Post
#68
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Just wondering, would you use holsters for SMGs ?.
That's very ... Matrix :love: . Might be less expensive in the long run to just drop one shoulderstrapped SMG (so you don't loose it), and reloading the other one. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:36 PM
Post
#69
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Yeah, it ain't cheap, but if I'm in a situation where I'm needing to rapidly empty SMGs I won't be too concerned with cost. If I'm going to amke a character based on doing it I'd probably dump max rating into loyalty for a gun runner contact and request jobs against forces that use SMGs so I can easily replenish my supply.
I probably wouldn't make the character though. :) |
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:45 PM
Post
#70
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
SMGs are really too big to benefit from "holsters" in the sense of being able to load into a quick-draw or concealable holster, as per RAW. However, some of the "pistol style" SMGs (think MAC-10 or a Mini-Uzi... Ingram Smartgun X (if you took off the suppressor) in SR4 could be done this way) could reasonably be carried (fairly obviously, due to bulk) in a holster-type arrangement. It's more a matter of convenience than anything else... means you don't have to carry around a 5 pound hunk of metal in your hands all the time. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:48 PM
Post
#71
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
No way, man. Install the dual SMGs in your cyberarms and go for the belt-fed option.
Then wear "clothing" made exclusively of the ammo belts. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:53 PM
Post
#72
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It's a new fashion statement!
Just be sure to be obese, hairy, and covered in warts. That way security will eventually leave instead of forcing you to fire those last 100 rounds. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 07:55 PM
Post
#73
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Saw a character a while back who hackjobbed the weapons mod rules into putting a belt feed onto a cyber shotgun. Let me tell you, there's nothing quite like watching someone's cyberarm gyros deploy as they're hauling this long belt of 12 gauge out of the zipper-top of their suitcase in an airport...
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 08:59 PM
Post
#74
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
Couple pairs of magnets on the SMG and the web gear?
Or even tiny electromagnets tied in to your PAN that can be used to stow the SMG in a ready position across the chest? BTW, IRL somebody's built a FA shotgun with a 30rd drum and very little felt recoil. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 13 2006, 09:37 PM
Post
#75
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Define "very little?" My idea of "very little" recoil is something like an M16.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 23rd April 2026 - 04:15 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.