Suppressive Fire question Options

[jklst14]

Edit: I read it some more and I think I get. I'd erase this post but it won't let me. Thanks :)

[Hunga]

Well, too bad you erased your post before I got to read it, because I have a suppressive fire question. This is just to show people that I did try to search :)

Say I want to use suppressive firing on two enemies. One has higher (A) initiative than me and the other lower (B). Say A has already spent his action for this phase and does have a free action left. Now it's my turn and I fire at both of them. My understanding is that A can spend his left over free action to drop prone, thus does not need to roll to avoid the suppressive fire. B on the other hand, cannot spend a free action to do so since it's not yet his turn so he has to roll Reaction + Edge to see if he's hit. Now on B's turn, if he doesn't drop prone or take cover but decides to just move away from the suppressive fire, then he's at risk again from the flying lead. In other words, he could potentially need to roll twice. Is this correct?

[mdynna]

Free Actions can be taken at any time in the Initiative sequence. Even when its not your turn. You only get one of them for every IP you have, however.

[UndeadPoet]

Person A can not actually use his action to fall prone and avoid your fire. If he wants to use his remaining free action, he has to announce that the moment you want to act. But he does not get to know what you are going to do, so he can not react to your action. If he is a mage with mindprobe on you, yes, he could fall prone to avoid your fire, since he knew you would attack this way.
If he is not a mage, he has to wait with falling prone until you are finished with your action and roll his defense roll, since he maybe gets hit.
The exactly same goes for B. He could fall prone if he liked(as mdynna said, free action available even before his initiative phase), but only before you announce your suppressive fire attempt.
Both roll their defense rolls and maybe get damage.
If they "decide to just move away from the suppressive fire" on their next action, they do not have to roll a defense roll this time. That's described on page 144.

[Hunga]

(pg. 135 - second paragraph)
"A character may take a Free Action during his own Action
Phase or at some later point in the Initiative Pass. A character
may not take a Free Action prior to his first Action Phase in the
Initiative Pass."

That's why I thought A would be able to drop prone, but not B.

UndeadPoet, I don't think that's correct. I declare my action to do suppressive fire on A and B, and A may declare his free action at this point.

(p. 132 second paragraph under 3.A. Declare Actions)
"Likewise, any character who has already acted in the Combat Turn
prior to this Action Phase and still has his Free Action left may declare it at this point if he chooses."

[UndeadPoet]

Okay, then there is a special ruling about using free actions... All other actions, when delayed, have to be declared before the person at whose initiative you wish to act declares his.
In this case, A and B both can fall prone and do not get any damage. Looks like person C who use suppressive fire has fucked up, because he has just emptied his weapon by 20 shells and did not hit anything. The opponents fall prone and shoot him dead right away.

[Aaron]

[Hunga]

I guess I should qualify my scenario. Let's say that I'm firing suppressively in the first action phase of the first combat turn. That means that person B cannot use his free action yet. So in this case, he is at risk of getting hit.

Aaron, you're right. That is the goal of suppressive fire, but I wouldn't be disappointed if I could nail a couple of people who are slow acting ;)

[UndeadPoet]

@Aaron: You missed the fact that the opponents still have actions besides their free one they need to let themselves fall to the ground. Still a complex one or two simple actions remaining.
Meaning, they are still able to harm the team.

[Hunga]

[Aku]

also, dont forget, that iirc, suppressive fire lasts until YOUR next turn, so if they stand up to fire back, they again need to make a defensive roll.

[UndeadPoet]

@Hunga: Doh! Okay, got it, thanks.

@Aku: Nothing hinders them from just keeping laying there and firing.

[Butterblume]

[mdynna]

I think the most important point of Suppressive Fire is being missed: it lasts until your next action (or the Combat Turn ends). Basically, it forces everyone in the field of fire to lose one whole IP.

Example:
Initiative order is Corp A, PC Rigger, Corp B, Corp C.
Corp A guy goes and does something.
PC Rigger now begins laying suppressive fire. Assuming Corp A still has a Free action left he can drop prone at that point. Corp B & C and in danger from the suppressive fire for now.
Corp B & C drop prone on their turn, SF is still in effect.

Next IP:
Corp A's turn suppressive fire is still in effect, so he can act but if he gets up he is in danger.
Now its PC Rigger's turn, and the SF ends. But it can be restarted if he/she wants.

Now, granted, Corp A could have delayed his action, stayed prone, and waited to see if PC Rigger would let up on the Suppressive Fire. However, that gives PC Rigger's allies time to do what they need to do (usually escape). The key in using SF is to make sure it happens before or simultaneously to any "covered" actions you want to take. Basically, if you are uber-fast Street Sam but you know Corp Goons go before your Rigger then delay until the Rigger's turn so that he/she can lay down the SF and cover your escape.

EDIT: I see now I'm re-stating what was said above. I'm just more verbose.

[dcpirahna]

As I read it from the rules:

Combat Phase 1
A . shoots random person
Shooter. Use suppression fire in the area occupied by A and B
B. Either Drop prone/cover (no roll), any other movement(or standing
still) (Reaction+edge or take damage)

Combat Phase 2
Suppression fire is still in effect because Shooter has not acted again.
A. Either Drop prone/cover (no roll), any other movement(or standing
still) (Reaction+edge or take damage)
Shooter. Suppresion fire ends, unless you do it again.
...

In this way:
1) _Everyone_ in the suppressed area must drop/cover or risk being hit once.
2) You cannot hit anyone more than once.

Timing it is important, but just because you have the drop on someone doesn't give anyone a particularly huge advangage. Noone takes damage without a chance to act at all because the risk depends on their actions. From the book: "Characters in the suppressed area who do not move other than taking cover or dropping prone are not at risk. (p.144 last sentence)"

Pretending to be a statue doesn't count as "not at risk" however :)

[mdynna]

So, people who are in the field of fire (wow, old book flashback) who have not acted yet are not at risk of injury until their action. That's fair.

[UndeadPoet]

[dcpirahna]

From my interpretation you are correct UndeadPoet. Suppression only limits the targets movement, not actions. They can still shoot/cast back from a prone position.

If it limited actions as well it would be incredibly overpowered.

[hobgoblin]

but by limiting movement you can control where the enemy comes from, and potentialy lead them into a crossfire. or pin them down and then drop explosives down on them.

hmm, this thread showed me that my take on free actions where a bit flawed. i had allways understood it as free actions being in unlimited quantity as long as you only took one pr initiative "count". maybe this changed given the slightly alterd way of doing initiative...

[Hunga]

[James McMurray]

It may have been done as a play balance issue? I can see where high initiative plus suppressive fire would be incredibly nasty if the other guy couldn't avoid it because he hasn't gone first.

[dcpirahna]

Corp B and C could not have talked about the weather. They do not get free actions until their turn, which is after the Rigger already layed down suppression fire. At which point they can either drop prone and not take damage, or talk about the weather and take damage.

If you mean A talking about the weather on his free action, then yes. He takes no damage until his next move before the rigger in the next IP, at which point he has the option of either dropping prone/cover, or taking damage.

The rules are an abstraction of combat. It's all happening very fast. He's not just sitting there in the bullets picking his nose.

[Butterblume]

After rethinking, i agree with dcpirahna.

[Kremlin KOA]

[dcpirahna]

The only real issue is things that cause people's initive positions to change making them fall out of the suppression timing (never having to roll), or the shooter faller further down causing someone to be in the suppression for 2 IPs, but this can be handled on a case by case basis by the GM in my opinion.