SR4: letting PCs respec thier chars as books print, over coming resitance to play Options

[Egon]

I have some players that are reluctant to play SR4 before their arch type book comes out. ie mages/magic, sams/man and machine, ....

Here is what I am thinking. Each player will be allowed at any time one respec. A complete regeneration of their pc using all bp, karma, and cash to date, but with the same concept and back story.

thoghts?

[Kanada Ten]

I'd allow it at each new book, personally; if only to prevent whinning later.

[James McMurray]

Our group allows respecs whenever a new book comes out in most campaigns.

[Mr.Platinum]

i'm a beleiver also.

[mfb]

hm. i've never respecced, nor do i think i'd allow it. matter of fact, i'm likely to give NPCs access to stuff from newer books before i give it to PCs.

[emo samurai]

Why?

[Kremlin KOA]

because those with corp connections get new stuff first :P

but now most of the stuff in the splatbooks will be old tech

[Kyoto Kid]

[fistandantilus4....]

mfb's POV makes sense when it's an upgrade book, like the SOTA 'series', but otherwise, I go with the "go ahead and revamp as needed" when we geta book where the players would have otherwise had access to something but could not because we didn't have the book. Really that comes up more with D&D than SR in my experience, but it set the precedence.

[mfb]

i view everything outside the core books as SOTA, basically, whether it says so on the cover or not. i also feel like it's cheating, somewhat, to redo your charsheet every time something new and cool comes out. it's like you didn't earn it.

[Kremlin KOA]

so tech that came out in 2053 is SOTA in your SR3 game because it is in M&M?

[Ki Ryn]

I'd allow changes that were caused soley by the new book coming out: ie. "I would have done THIS had that book been around when I made my character."

I would not allow unrestrited rewrites as that could easily be abused. I would also take the time frame into consideration. If some new gear is cutting edge but the campaign has been running for 5 years (game time), then you can't have started with said gear.

Just common sense really, but I ok with making retroactive changes to chracters if the stuff in the new book is presented as having been there all along.

[Lurker69]

My GM's have never let us respec characters as new books come out.
You suffer till your character dies or we change campgain settings.

you can't respec in real life

[nick012000]

In real life, equipment doesn't disappear because it's in a splatbook that hasn't been released yet. ;)

[Lindt]

No, it just hasent hit the market yet.

Im with MFB on this one, new books = new toys for NPCs, and PCs later.

[Ryu]

Alltough complete "respecs" would not fly (at all), modding a character to fit new rules can be a sensible thing to do. It depends on the gear in question - essentials are fine, gimmicks can be added within the game.
Should the new essentials be SOTA (ie. a campaign running into the wireless age), even they would have to be aquired ingame.

[mfb]

[Backgammon]

You could also let them make their chars using 3rd books, then convert stuff they are interested in. There are already several cyberware conversions around, and spells are easy.

[Egon]

Just to clear up my intentions. This would be just a one time respec when your main book comes out. I doubt there are any real surprises as to what books to expect.

technomancers/deckers --> matrix
mages --> magic
sams --> man and machine
riggers --> rigger 4
mixed class one respec when it suits them --> maybe cannon companion, some other book, or tuesday

this is the 4th edition of shadowrun we all know how this works by now. 70% of all possible stuff for your class is in the main 30% is going to be printed in a arch-type expansion book. You don't need that 30% but it is where a lot of nice fill in gear and and a few big toys are.

This is just a way to start running now. I remember in 3rd my sam would have been declared dead on the spot when man and machine came out with out a little touch up. I also remember waiting a year for MaM to come out while mages had magic in the shadows.

[James McMurray]

I figured that given the way the discussion has grown I might want to clarify: SOTA stuff would not be allowed in a respec, but other things that have been around forever (2055 cyberware just hitting the SR4 ruleset, kung fu, etc.) is fair game. It doesn't make sense to me that suddenly every security gaurd on the planet has an opportunity to know a martial art style when the players have never heard of it, likewise with older gear that is just now available in a rules form.

[Shrike30]

Previous editions have tended to have a run on nifty stuff like new skills, pieces of gear which are suddenly required to do something the character could already do, and other random nifty stuff like the old "20 karma for a power point" physad holdover until initiating appeared getting phased out. If it's a case of "had this book been out, this character would have had X skill or Y piece of gear, because the new rules make it a core piece of what he does," then hell yes, I'd allow a character to trade in some of his old stuff for things that are more compatible with the game we're now running. It's like converting a char from SR3 to SR4... you're converting him from pre-MagicBook to post-MagicBook.

Am I going to allow a character to change what he does entirely? No. Any changes he makes have got to be explained to me in terms of "Yeah, this thing I used to do, it now gets done this way, so, uh, I'm changing these points *here* over into these points *here*." Seems kinda silly to have characters become "obsolete" IG for an OOG reason.

[Egon]

Pretty much Shrike30. The PCs have a valid concern that the new core books coming out will make them obsolete. I don't want that any more then they do.

[NightHaunter]

To my mind the New Books are the New Nerps!
Everyone (PCs) should work to get the "new" kit.
NPCs however, the right ones are usually SOTA and beyond.

[kingma15]

I would say when a new splat book comes out, that person can get what they want out of there.. but they have to save up and get it (be that Karma or NuYen)...

[mfb]