 the heal spell, ambiguity FTW |
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 Apr 21 2006, 09:49 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 332 Joined: 19-September 05 From: Nashville, Tn Member No.: 7,761  |
ok. i just realised that i don't know how the heal spell is supposed to be rolled.
i'm reading and re-reading the spell 3rd core 193-4 i get the target number, and i get the drain i do not get that is the splitting sucesses between time and boxes healed. what it the base time (1hr is what i've always thought, but it dosent actually say) what dose permanent actually mean? full health, or what was healed not popping back? |
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Apr 21 2006, 09:56 PM
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#2
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
The base time and permanent are related. All permanent spells have a period in which they must be sustained before becoming permanent. Somewhere in the magic chapter, this period, measured in turns, is given for various things. IIRC, it's 10 or 15 turns that the magician has to be sitting there touching the target. Permanent means the damage will remain gone after the period is complete. |
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Apr 21 2006, 10:06 PM
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#3
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The magician doesn't have to be touching the target for 15 turns, he just has to be sustaining the spell and he takes sustaining penalties just like any other sustained spell.
Essentially, a perment spell is a sustained spell whose effects become permenant after some ammount of time. Once the effect becomes permenant the magician can stop sustaining. If the magician stops sustaining before then the effect goes away. With the heal spell, if the magician stops sustaining too early all the damage comes back (on top of any damage that the character may have taken while the spell was being sustained, potentially putting the character into overflow or worse) and that damage can never be healed by magic again. |
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Apr 21 2006, 11:02 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 7-July 03 Member No.: 4,891 |
So if you have a guy in your power and for whatever reason don't want to kill him, you can still injure him terribly and fake-heal his wounds to seal off magical healing and keep him out of action for an extra few days. I never knew that. |
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Apr 21 2006, 11:08 PM
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#5
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Heal is voluntary, so the target may not allow you to even try. |
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Apr 21 2006, 11:21 PM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Depends on your reading of what "successful" use of the spell is. ~J |
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Apr 22 2006, 12:04 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,401 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Hm. Does that make Heal spells automatically fail vs someone with the positive quality of magic resistance? As from what I recall (no book in front of me) the MR quality makes you automatically fail 'voluntary' as you can't lower it on your own.
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Apr 22 2006, 12:24 AM
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#8
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
My interpertation is that you have to roll your magic resistance dice (without an accompanying stat) against voluntary spells at the standard magic resistance TN of (Force). Any success are subtracted from the success of the magician casting the beneficial spell.
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Apr 22 2006, 02:37 AM
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#9
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
hyzmarca nailed it.
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Apr 22 2006, 04:51 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 7-July 03 Member No.: 4,891 |
Nuts. Oh well. I guess you could maim him, beat him into unconsciousness, and then go for it. |
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Apr 22 2006, 04:53 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's incorrect. Rather, it's correct in that spells that can be resisted must be, but spells like Heal that require a voluntary target will always fail. No resistance test, no nothing. If it needs a voluntary target, your guy with Magic Resistance ain't it.
(Emphasis original) ~J |
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Apr 22 2006, 05:03 AM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
must create involuntary heal spell
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Apr 22 2006, 05:05 AM
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#13
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Trivial to do, drain's just harsh.
~J |
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Apr 22 2006, 05:07 AM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
yeah but I only need it at force 1 to do the you can't be healed any more trick
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Apr 22 2006, 05:26 AM
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#15
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
They do still get to resist. Granted in most cases you'll outdice them, but note that you're still going to have to make sure you're able to soak the 2(their wound level +1) Drain while still exceeding their resistance test against TN 2.
~J |
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Apr 22 2006, 05:30 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 7-July 03 Member No.: 4,891 |
What would they resist with, besides MR dice?
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Apr 22 2006, 05:34 AM
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#17
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Willpower.
~J |
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Apr 22 2006, 05:44 AM
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#18
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
MitS page 50 makes it sound like the designer could choose Body or Willpower in this case at the time of spell creation. As a GM I would generally rule Body for a Forced Heal spell. |
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Apr 22 2006, 12:38 PM
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#19
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I see where you're coming from. I'm still leaning towards Willpower, but Body's reasonable.
On the other hand, by that section a designer could choose Charisma or Quickness… ~J |
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Apr 22 2006, 07:12 PM
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#20
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Ah yes, forgot about the "voluntary" part of resistance. |
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Apr 22 2006, 09:46 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,401 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Hm. I wonder if the BP cost is appropriate then. For a mere increase of 1 die of resistance to other spells, you suddenly become immune to healing that to a degree even cybered dudes can still get.
Hm. Another angle might be change it so each die you buy reduces the die pool of the caster (kinda like murky link). Just me, but if you forever give up magical healing, you should get more bang for your buck :) |
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Apr 29 2006, 09:18 AM
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#22
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I'm not sure if you ever got all the explanations you wanted, so:
You can allocate successes to either the number of boxes healed, or at least 2 successes to reduce the time needed to sustain the spell until the effects become permanent.
Base times depend on Drain Level. They are noted in SR3 on page 178.
The boxes healed not popping back. |
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 Apr 29 2006, 10:47 AM
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#23
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,035 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Not sure if your answers have all been addressed yet... EDIT: Uhh... nothing to see here (unless you are interested in the SR4 answer to a SR3 question, that is). :D [ Spoiler ] Bye Thanee |
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Apr 29 2006, 11:50 AM
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#24
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Wtf? I have no idea where you got any of your erroneous explanation. Spreading misinformation? SR4? ??? The base time to sustain the spells is based on their drain code in multiples of 5. Base time can be reduced by dividing by, not subtracting, successes. That is why I stated at least 2, because allocating only 1 and dividing by 1 is a waste of a success. Heal and Treat spells have variable drain codes based on the amount of damage the target has sustained. Thus, in your 5 boxes of damage example, the base time to make the spell permanent is 10 turns. With 7 successes (I notice you say hits, are you in SR4?), 5 will fully heal all damage and the remaining 2 can reduce the sustaining time to 5 combat turns. |
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Apr 29 2006, 11:54 AM
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#25
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,035 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Err... Oops! Missed the SR3 reference. :spin: Thanks for noticing! :) Bye Thanee |
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