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#1
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 15-April 06 From: Louisville, Kentucky Member No.: 8,467 ![]() |
Page 341 says a "Rigger Adaption", when added to a vehicle, allows a character with a control rig to rig the vehicle.
What does one add to a car in order to control it without a control rig (ie. using full VR via a comlink-simmodule-datajack)? Is pg. 341 in error mentioning ONLY control rigs, or are other places in error when they suggest one can be a rigger without a control rig? (Or am I in error just by nature of existing?) |
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#2
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 ![]() |
its a simple matter of degree's, while through your commlink and trode paste or something of the sort you can control the car, with a control rig you become the car and are able to control other things more abley as well
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#3
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-July 05 Member No.: 7,492 ![]() |
There's a difference between driving by remote, and rigging.
One could, in theory, drive by remote with a manual remote control (kids do this all the time). Of course, most people would want some feedback, so video feeds, radar data, and various gauge data would be relayed back to the controller. Rigging, however, is more in depth than just about anything. The only thing that really comes close to rigging is moving around in your own body. That sort of immersion requires the VCR and the rigger adaptation. |
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#4
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 ![]() |
It seems, in SR4, that it is perfectly possible to go VR and jump into a Vehicle/Drone without an Control Rig or a Vehicle Black Box.
Those seem to work like a SmartGun & SmartLink now - if both components are present, the user gets +2 dice. |
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#5
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Karma Police ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 ![]() |
This has been proven by several quotes in the past, but I don't have time to find them right now. The wording on the Control Rig cyberware should be enough though. Also, there's a small mention of rigger adaption on page 238 that says: "The key difference that sets drones apart from ordinary vehicles is the rigger adaption that provides drones with a pilot program, which enables the drone to act independently of its controller to a limited degree." It seems that by 2070 all vehicles are fitted with enough sensors to be controlled with VR, and rigging has become so close to hacking that all you need to do it is a commlink. But there's still a way of modifying your vehicle to take full advantage of all the rigger potential, and if you do that (and have a control rig implant) you get +2 bonus when in VR and the ability to control your vehicle in captain's chair mode. |
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#6
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 ![]() |
Hrm... that's a 1:1 C&P from SR3, which is totally out of context in SR4: Every Vehicle has a Pilot and Pilot can be installed on normal Devices, too... it's just a replacement for System now. Vehicle combat and rigging rules only mention VR as a prequisite for the normal benefits. BTW - SR4 does not feature the term captain's chair anymore... Issuing Commands works from any 'Mode'. |
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#7
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Karma Police ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 ![]() |
The quote is from SR4, but I agree. We may agree that both the isolated insinuation that you need a control rig to jump into a vehicle, that spawned this subject—and the mention of rigger adaption giving vehicles pilot rating, are leftovers from SR3 and should propably be ignored.
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#8
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 15-April 06 From: Louisville, Kentucky Member No.: 8,467 ![]() |
Hrm, if every car can be remote controlled (let alone jumped into) right off the shelf, then every car can be hacked as well.
That is going to make our chase scenes much shorter. |
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#9
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Karma Police ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 ![]() |
We don't know either way. On one hand the control rig and rigger adaption is never mentioned as pre-requesits for the bennefits of VR driving, and all vehicles have pilot ratings. On the other hand there's one quote that says rigger adaption gives regular vehicles the same ability for independent action as drones by giving them a pilot rating (which they allready have), and there text about rigger adaption says it allows people with a control rig to rig the vehicle, and even though it never says people without a control rig can't—it seems to imply so, which would be new and important information in a seemingly out of place, obscure location in the book. Yet another case were each of us has to make up their own mind.
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#10
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 ![]() |
What we've decided (maybe a house rule) is that vehicles do not have the full "dog brain" of a drone without the rigger adaption. The default "pilot" can drive from point A to Point B and do so in a fashion that obeys traffic law but that's it. A default Pilot cannot be ordered to break traffic law in any fashion without resorting to manual controls.
An adapted vehicle can be told to ignore traffic laws, follow another vehicle/person, perform an action when they see a person/vehicle (honk the horn/flash lights), or even attack/collide with something. We figure all vehicles with Pilot support AR/VR operation in "jumped in" mode just as a safety feature (lower thresholds and better response times? Heck yeah!). |
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#11
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
may i ask where its stated that i can load a pilot into my comlink to replace the system? |
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#12
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,758 ![]() |
There was a really good thread before on the different ways to drive in 2070. Here it is:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=11631 |
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#13
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Karma Police ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 ![]() |
This post is what convinced me that time that you in fact do not need to have either rigger adaption or a control rig, though it helps. |
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#14
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Karma Police ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 ![]() |
There has been discussions about how you could make drone commlinks by replacing the system with a pilot, and so get past the limit of how many agents you can run. I personally think it's an exploit that should not be allowed. |
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#15
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
and ill second that. if you want a drone in your pocket, get a micro-drone ;)
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#16
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 ![]() |
We've played it so that vehicle pilot ratings help you drive, while upgrading it to a drone pilot rating will help it drive itself.
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#17
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 ![]() |
I dunno about this. Cars have been able to drive themselves for pretty much the length of Shadowrun's history. It's just an issue of how well. |
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#18
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 ![]() |
I didn't say we were doing it the canon way, I just said that's how we do it. :)
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#19
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 ![]() |
Touche. |
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#20
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 ![]() |
Also, it hasn't come up yet, but we might allow the pilot rating on avehicle to do minor things, like bring it to a safe stop if the driver goes unconscious or something. But there is definitely a line between what a vehicle can do and what a drone can do, we just picked a decent sounding (and simple) place to put it.
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 ![]() |
It can be hacked anyway - it's a node.
There was an artificial line, and in SR4, it's gone for good. |
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#22
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 ![]() |
From the RAW: "Nearly any kind of vehicle—matchbox-sized cars, dwarfsized rotorcraft, ground patrol vehicles the size of a large dog, even modified sports cars—may serve as drones. The key difference that sets drones apart from ordinary vehicles is the rigger adaptation that provides drones with a Pilot program, which enables the drone to act independently of its controller to a limited degree. All drones that are incapable of carrying passengers are usually automatically pre-adapted for rigger control. Passenger vehicles or larger passenger drones are not usually pre-adapted, but can be adapted quickly by the manufacturer, a mechanic, or even a rigger character (see Rigger Adaptation, p. 341)." Every car MAY serve as a drone. Every car is NOT PRE-ADAPTED to serve as a drone. You can only remote control passenger vehicles that have been adapted. |
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#23
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 ![]() |
What he said. The line still exists, it just isn't well defined, as they never tell you what a non-drone rig modified vehicle can do on its own, if anything. Although from that passage it would appear that no vehicles can act on their own at all unless they've been drone modified.
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#24
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 15-April 06 From: Louisville, Kentucky Member No.: 8,467 ![]() |
That is certainly one valid interpretation. And if it were the only one, this would be a much shorter thread.
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#25
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 ![]() |
Yeppers.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 1st December 2023 - 10:33 AM |
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