 Shadowrun on Xbox 360 and PC! |
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 May 15 2006, 11:11 AM
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#151
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panda!  Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242  |
hmm, makes me think of the clone saga that hit spider-man at one time. thankfully i never got mixed up in trying to figure it out... still, it ended up bringing back the green goblin from the dead... its seems the reason given for the restart of the shadowrun history was that they burned themselfs when trying to make the battletech/mechwarrior based games fit inside the storys. thing is tho that both people here and on the shadowrun.com forum have shown that you can create a FPS inside the existing shadowrun world with only minor work. personaly im partial for a "desert wars" kinda game. or maybe even "tundra wars", as i think there was talk in sota63 about starting up stuff in the siberian tundra... |
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May 15 2006, 02:02 PM
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#152
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
There is some "minor work", mostly just learning the setting i think, that could go into the backstory or the setting. But i'll go out on a limb and say i find this idea a bit better than Desert Wars. Urban Brawl too would feel quite contrived, even more so than what they have. But that still wouldn't help in regard to things like the lack of Combat spells. The problem is to have a shot of making money they most certainly must be able to sell to a LOT more than just the SR RPG P&P customers. So you need to create a game that is fun to play on it's own, and also stands apart from other games outside of just "it is based on SR". I really don't see a canon SR rules computer game being that engaging on it's own, certainly not one built on a reasonable budget. In implementing a computer program you have to be very aggresive in thwarting feature bloat. I completely agree that combat spells would be hard to differentiate from guns in funtionality of the game. So they would add little value to the game play. It's likely why Orcs didn't make the cut too. That's also why teleport and rez came in. So they WOULDN'T be making just another copy cat FPS clone. |
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May 15 2006, 03:07 PM
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#153
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
yet both are in a way copycat elements (outside of the teleport thru walls bit)...
combat magic would be diffrent from guns in that they take their "ammo" From the "essense pool" rather then from some clip. ok, so there is the fireball spam problem but the jerk doing will run out at some point. and with the right tech you could maybe get around it (i would guess a well placed flashbang would be nice). its mostly the magic-negating dwarfs and the regenerating elfs thats irking me these days. the rest could in theory be renamed to conform more with the SR p&p with minimal effort (like say labeling that tree of life as a spirit of man with a healing spell. prerequisite, pick up a healing spell yourself). i dont know, granting special powers to specific races irks me somhow. that and the statement that they needed to basicly redo the whole setting background :( |
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May 15 2006, 04:21 PM
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#154
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
But by spending the coding effort for spells on things that guns don't do they expand the range of the game moreso.
The rez is relatively rare, and nobody here has managed to come up with the ongoing link to the healer (effectively sustained spell). To clasify a how game as merely a copy cat because a variation of it's elements have been used in other games, and not even together, is a very unrealistic characterization. Damn, take a look around the SR's offical metaplots. "The world would be a better place if people would just accept that there’s nothing new under the sun, and everything you can do with a person has probably been done long before you got there." - Hooper X, Chasing Amy |
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May 15 2006, 05:12 PM
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#155
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Linking a resurrectee to the resurrecter and teleporting through walls can be fun little tricks, but they are not revolutionary new features that make for "innovative gameplay" (as someone who apparently hadn't read anything about the game put it on the shadowrun.com forums) in an otherwise basic, conventional game of CTF. A few such tricks are necessary to make the game something other than Unreal Tournament with slightly different graphics, but "innovative gameplay" requires a lot more. Something on the order of this.
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May 15 2006, 06:27 PM
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#156
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
and that's bad, in your world? and, what AE said. linking the resurectee to the resurecter is an innovative detail--one, i might note, that has no place in SR. they can come up with all the neat, innovative crap in the world, and i still won't lay down money for it as long as they persist in calling it Shadowrun. |
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May 15 2006, 06:59 PM
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#157
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Spells ending when their caster dies has always been a part of shadowrun. It's that whole "susteained spell" thing. Resurrection isn't an SR concept, but sustained spells certainly is.
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May 15 2006, 07:10 PM
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#158
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
health spells tend to be permanent, though. once you finish casting them, you don't have to sustain them anymore. basically, FASA got something partially right--and then used it completely wrong.
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May 15 2006, 07:38 PM
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#159
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Think of it as a possession spell instead of a health spell if that helps any. They don't fix the body, they just recal the spirit to temporarily animate it.
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May 15 2006, 07:45 PM
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#160
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
sorcery can't summon or banish spirits. moreover, no one in 2070 has managed to perform such a feat, even with conjuring, so making it commonplace in 2021 is pretty much insane.
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May 15 2006, 07:50 PM
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#161
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I didn't say it fit in the SR universe, just that it was a way of getting around the problems with thinking that healing spells have to be permanent. If that opens new problems... sorry. :)
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May 15 2006, 07:54 PM
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#162
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Thats because instead of building a game that fit into the existing story, they wanted to create a whole new type of game that had nothing to do with Battletech, but used the name. Sound familiar? So they re-wrote the game to match their craptacular idea, instead of using the greatness that was already their. One word: EGO Heaven forbid you expand on someone elses idea. No no, you have to crap all over it and make your own idea, but use their name so that you get the IP. |
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May 15 2006, 07:56 PM
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#163
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
my main issue with the "Shadowrun" FPS is that it doesn't fit--at all--with Shadowrun continuity. coming up with theories on how magic works in the "Shadowrun" FPS would be an interesting exercise, one that i would normally get behind... except that i tend to view the "Shadowrun" FPS as a direct insult to SR fans, so exploring it is pretty much the opposite of interesting to me.
in other news, i think i've figured out why this game is such a mockery of SR. it's Microsoft's revenge on Shadowrun for making William W. Gates III an otaku freak. |
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May 15 2006, 08:01 PM
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#164
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
:rotfl: |
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May 15 2006, 08:29 PM
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#165
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Diverting that same coding effort to Powerbolt instead is bad. In my world coding resources are limited.
*shrug* Capturing spawnpoints to win a game is certainly old hat. Natural Selection certainly wasn't the first FPS to have a team commander mode to gather intell reports from the team members, set waypoints for resource deployment, and give directions from an overhead map view. I don't recall any that made it a -requirement- to have that position filled, but that's just a fun little trick. Right? :^) |
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May 15 2006, 08:32 PM
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#166
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i'm a fan of doing things right. to me, that means that if you have to extend the total time you spend creating the game in order to match the mechanics and world up with the source material, you do so. partly out of respect for the source material, and partly because, as McMurray pointed out, making a name for yourself as a company that treats IPs with respect is a good way to ensure long-term profit. |
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May 15 2006, 08:42 PM
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#167
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Do we know how much time was put into this project versus what the projected revenue was? Keeping in mind that the marketing guys probably figured that every Shadowrun fan would buy the game no matter what it looked like?
If the line was already being skirted I'd rather lose Power Bolt in favor of Heal and Summoning. If not, then yeah, I'd like offensive magic too. It comes down to how much cake there is and how many people are trying to eat it. At some point resources stop being available. And of course, if it did have offensive magic, people would instead be complaining that it doesn't have improved invisibility, or trid phantasm, or whatever other really cool SR spell didn't make the cut. A lack of offensive magic is definitely an odd place to draw the line, but I can see the reasoning behind it. And on a side note, is the world about to end or something? I find myself in the unique position of alternating between agreeing with mfb and blakkie. WHAT'S GOING ON???? ;) |
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May 15 2006, 08:56 PM
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#168
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
*shrug* you're the one that was talking about the financial sense of creating good work as opposed to shoddy work.
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May 15 2006, 09:13 PM
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#169
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Yeah. I know that. thanks for pointing it out though. ;)
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May 15 2006, 09:19 PM
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#170
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i see you're still under the impression that i disagreed with you on that point. regardless, you don't see the relationship between that statement and the time versus projected revunue statement you just made?
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May 15 2006, 09:23 PM
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#171
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I definitely see the relation. More time means more revenue but higher up front costs. Less time means more revenue but the risk of a shoddier product lowering sales. It's a balancing act between resources and results.
Why would you think I think you're disagreeing with me just because I told you that I knew what I already said? |
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May 15 2006, 09:31 PM
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#172
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
That's not nearly all the human team commander does in NS, nor does that even touch upon all the other things that NS does different from all the other popular multiplayer FPSs that were around when it came out. But, if you think that fantasy races and a few spells are as big a leap in gameplay from UT2k# and CS:S as NS is from CS, DoD, etc., then I doubt I can convince you otherwise. |
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May 15 2006, 10:18 PM
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#173
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
NS was, as far as I know, the first game to give ONE SIDE a commander (and have the other side use an integrated HUD/"overmind notifications" system to compensate), and still manage to balance it. I've also not seen a game where the commander has the option to manipulate the automated parts of the environment (opening doors, cycling elevators, etc), handles research, dispenses equipment, and establishes structural objects for the other players to set up. Of course, my gaming experience isn't hugely diverse, either, but these were features new to me in an FPS.
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May 15 2006, 10:58 PM
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#174
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
mainly because i'm dealing with a sarcastic ass. so when you thank me for agreeing with you, i tend to assume you think i disagreed at some point. at any rate, like i said: i'm a fan of doing things right. if it can't be done right for a reasonable cost, the choice to me is between not doing it and doing it right at unreasonable cost. i understand there are other ways of going about projects; for those who use those other methods, i reserve the right to put $ in their company name. |
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May 15 2006, 11:17 PM
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#175
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Understandable. :)
You might be gifting me with more finesse then I've actually got though. Sometimes a sentence is just a sentence. ;) |
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