 Shadowrun on Xbox 360 and PC! |
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 May 17 2006, 12:47 AM
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#226
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
that, right there, is exactly why i'm not buying the game. they decided to make what they wanted to make, and slap the SR logo on it. i'm done here. i'm repeating myself, and blakkie is reverting back to his basic nature. nothing good can come of continuing. |
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May 17 2006, 12:55 AM
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#227
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
....of poking you right in your big, fat, pompus, illogical eye. :P The one that has decided that people not holding in high esteem your lofty [unrealistic] ideals AND your personal tastes are just lazy or greedy. |
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May 17 2006, 02:31 AM
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#228
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
So, is one of you going to make a high-quality, stable, features-jammed Deus Ex mod set in a Shadowrun setting yet? I mean, since we pretty much figured out that the MS game won't be worth buying, I figured I'd just download and enjoy your hyper cannon of drama mod work instead. That dosen't exist yet. But it should.
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May 17 2006, 02:35 AM
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#229
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 556 Joined: 28-May 04 From: Moorhead, MN, USA Member No.: 6,367 |
(Lets see if I can still do this.) Yeah, but it's cool because a dev has a purple mohawk.
This post has been edited by Da9iel: May 17 2006, 02:39 AM |
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May 17 2006, 03:02 AM
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#230
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 29-October 05 Member No.: 7,908 |
I will readily confess that I am a detail man. I love deep stuff. I like stuff that's got so many layers it gets local geologists excited. And then when it comes time to share that stuff with everybody else, I've got to tone it down about ten notches so they don't look at me like I'm speaking Latin. That part of me can't help but feel awful. That part of me feels like my favorite puppy was just drowned in a lake inside a garbage bag. As much as I like SR4, I still miss the demise of variable TNs.
That said, I don't know how I'd make an SR computer game if I was placed in the hot seat. As Einstein says, make things as simple as possible, but no simpler. The development team obviously took the knife to canon, but I think they probably cut a little too far. But how much of this perceived loss is real or imaginary is hard to determine. They've gone all the way back to 2012. We can't say with certainty whether future events will be invalidated, but there is a real fear that if they tinkered with such basic stuff as making magic absorbant dwarves... then what else we be lost? Call it estimated trajectory. I think it is clear that somebody probably started with gameplay mechanics first, and the cut apart SR stuff to fit. Sort of like putting square shaped stickers on a circle. On one hand, sure, mechanically a circle peg is going to fit in the circle hole, and thus increase the odds for good gameplay. But I think that people feel it is an insult to their intelligence when you slap the square sticker on top. Example, allow an option like an edge to be magic resistant, but don't slap it on the dwarf metatype. So, in the end, I'm just conflicted. |
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May 17 2006, 03:26 AM
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#231
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I was thinking more of Morrowind. Shadowrun style drain is rather easy to impliment in Morrorwind due to the ability to mix and match spel effects. It is simple to seet magica cost to 0 and put damage stamine self on every spell. Of course, firearms and cyberware would present some problems due to the fact that the game was disigned to support a Roman Empire tech level but firearm mods have already been done with creative scripting. |
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May 17 2006, 03:26 AM
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#232
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
According to the game details, not only are dwarves resistant to magic, they inhibit magic! Automatic counterspelling whether they're a mage or not? Come one people! :eek:
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May 17 2006, 03:29 AM
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#233
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Yeah, well, I don't like Morrowind. See that one to VW instead. ;) |
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May 17 2006, 03:57 AM
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#234
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
meh. mods aren't where my talents lie.
i agree. on some of the forums i visit, the reaction of some is that fans of SR should buy whatever video game is offered, as long as it has Shadowrun on the box. that way, it's more likely to see a sequel. my personal feeling is that if the game isn't SR, i don't want it, no matter what it says on the box--and that goes for sequels as well. |
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May 17 2006, 04:42 AM
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#235
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
We'll see that sometime after drunken monkeys sprout wings, feathered, not the kite kind, and fly off to happy happy candyland. Afterall apparently mods aren't where the talents here lie, sniveling about how -other- people just so don't know how to build a computer game is. @Da9iel: Hehe, i hadn't seen that one before. Dig the "monkey brain" comment, i'm really onto something i think. :D |
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May 17 2006, 04:52 AM
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#236
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
The funniest thing to me about this entire thing is that no matter what game they'd made, hardcore SR fans would bitch. They would still have left out Orks, because Trolls and Orks are too close to one another to bother coding both. They would have had to leave some canon stuff out, meaning cries of "damnit! I wanted my kid stealth legs!" They'd have had to drop some spells ("Waaah! Where's my Turn to Goo???").
It is impossible for any game to fully duplicate a PnP game that's been around for decades. And depending on what your time frame is, you'll probably have to even change some game mechanics around to make the coding simpler. Hell, even Neverwinter Nights and D&D Online have hordes of detracters and they're both really close to the actual rule sets. |
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May 17 2006, 04:55 AM
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#237
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
oh, definitely. that's the fun part about being a hardcore fan of anything--bashing parts of it you don't like. however, the main difference between fan reaction to this game and fan reaction to a game where the developers took the time to portray the SR world with a reasonable degree of accuracy is, i'd be buying that other game. and so would a lot of other SR fans. |
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May 17 2006, 05:02 AM
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#238
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
True. And Microsoft would be getting the $5,000 worth of profits because of it. But who's to say how much making this version will net them from non-SR fans. I certainly can't, but it might be more than the money they lose by alienating the comparatively small group of people that play FPS games and also play PnP SR.
Edit: The "true" is meant to refer to your second paragraph. I disagree witht eh first, and it doesn't really seem to mesh with my statements anyway, since I was talking about hardcore SR fans bashing a computer game, not SR itself. |
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May 17 2006, 05:06 AM
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#239
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I'm not sure how much easier Deus Ex's preexisting RPG elements would make it to mod, but unless the answer is "a whole lot" it is, while an awesome game, just about the worst choice you could make for a base to mod on. The engine sucks and sucks badly, as anyone who has tried to use the eye-lights in the game knows. That said, I am working on something with a friend. More news if and when it gets off the ground in a serious way. James: you're assuming that the qualities that make a game attractive to fans will innately be aversive, or at least uninteresting, to non-fans. If I really have to point out the flaws in that assumption, there's no point in trying to talk about it. ~J |
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May 17 2006, 05:10 AM
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#240
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
your estimate of the number of SR fans appears to be slightly lower than mine. certainly your estimate of the number of fans who won't be buying the "Shadowrun" FPS because of the, ah, changes made to the story line is. as for how much they'll get off non-SR fans, well, that goes back to the M$ thing.
i was being largely tongue-in-cheeck about bashing something being the best part about being a fan of that thing. |
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May 17 2006, 05:12 AM
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#241
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I'm not assuming anything. Did you somehow take my use of "I certainly can't" and "might" to mean I had nailed down exactly what effects the changes have on the marketability of the game? I'd say that if that is the level of reading comprehension you have, there's no point in trying to talk about anything.
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May 17 2006, 05:16 AM
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#242
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
your phrasing would lead one to believe that you made that assumption. you say "this version might not get SR fans, but it might get non-fans", which certainly implies that there is something about the version which attracts non-fans while repelling fans. or, at least, one can easily draw that implication from it.
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May 17 2006, 05:16 AM
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#243
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
So what's your estimate? Where's your market research? How much profit do you think they make from each copy of SR that they sell, given that we don't know how much it cost to make and how much it will sell for? How many copies would be pirated by SR players because "that's what shadowrunners do," and therefor wouldn't be profit for them anyway? Admittedly I picked a number out of my ass, but it has about as much chance of being right as any number you pick unless you have access to a lot more information, and answers to questions that don't actually have any way of being answered. And the basic premise is the same whether the number is $5,000 or $500,000, as we have no idea of what the effects of adding the non-SR magic tot he game will be on sales. |
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May 17 2006, 05:20 AM
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#244
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
my estimate? i don't have an estimate. i have no idea exactly how many SR fans are not going to buy the game due to the lack of respect with which it treats the IP. i do know of around 200+ who have vocally made clear their intentions to not buy it for that reason, but whether or not they'll follow through--and how many haven't spoken, but who will do the same--i don't know.
none of which has anything to do with my point, which remains that the honest thing for the developers to do would be to either create a game that treats the IP with respect, or not make a game at all. the fact that they're doing neither is what prompted the whole M$ thing. i don't care how many sales of this game there are, though it would suit my personal sense of justice if it flopped. but whether or not it will succeed has never been my point. |
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May 17 2006, 05:28 AM
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#245
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
And oddly enough, they don't care whether or not you care. Ain't it grand when life turns full circle. :)
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May 17 2006, 05:29 AM
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#246
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
http://www.shadowrun-online.com/sronline/index.php
On the upside, it looks like there's a SR MMORPG coming out as well. |
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May 17 2006, 05:31 AM
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#247
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
no. but i'm willing to bet they'll care if there's a massive fan backlash against their game. and i'm hoping that calling them on their dishonesty on the official forums--along with several hundred other fans--will motivate them to mend their ways.
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May 17 2006, 05:38 AM
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#248
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I hope so too, but doubt it. If it makes money they'll make a sequel. If it doesn't make money they won't.
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May 17 2006, 05:42 AM
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#249
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
at this point, i'd rather not see a sequel.
i think of it this way: i was unhappy when Greedo shot first, but at least it was Lucas who decided it. |
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May 17 2006, 05:46 AM
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#250
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
And of course, whether you or I want a sequel really doesn't matter. :)
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 5th January 2025 - 05:13 AM |
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