My homocidal players. My game. My nightmare, I need advice from all you other GM's Options

[ryanstone]

Hello all,
So I'm about at my wits end with my game and with Shadowrun in general. I could really use some advice on how to handle a situation that arose during my game with weekend.

First, the situation: The party kidnapped a hacker from a bar. In front of a dozen other hackers who ran rampant in the players completely open Comlinks. They then proceeded to murder the woman they kidnaped after she spilled the beans. They then left an NPC to deal with the van and body while they all grabbed grid cabs using their SINs and comlinks to go to another location. They got into another gun fight at the second location and this is where we ended the game.
Here is a big part of my quandry: This is not their first time being wanted for murder.
On their first mission they were supposed to destroy a facility with explosives. However, the Johnson made it clear that the guards did not have to be killed and he would be happier if they weren't. Of course the playes go in with guns blazing and kill all but one of the guards who was sniping them. The security cameras were never disabled and the hacker was brought down so they were not able to erase the camera data. Thus, the run and the slaughter of the guards was on the news as were the character faces. Since it was their first mission I went easy on them and had them lay low for a while and their contacts cut off communication with them for several months while the het died down.

So the players are already wanted for murder from teh first run, then they go and pull something like this. What the heck should I do?

Here is what I think should honestly happen: The hackers at the bar would have called Lonestar as soon as she was kidnapped. Also, they spend a min or two interrogating the hacker they kidnapped, which gave her time to call Lonestar herself in AR, and also hack the vans RFID to broadcast her location to Lonestar. The team does not have a hacker and thus, was not able to intercept her transmissions. So Lonestar is all over the kidnapping and murder within an hour or so. I'm sure they can access gridcab records and track their cab pickup and dropoff location due to all of the users SIN's being given to the police by the hackers who were nosing through their open comlinks.
The players also plan on picking up another cab to leave their current location. I'm sure their SIN's are flagged and Lonestar will be notified as soon as they get into the cab and pay for it with their Comlinks. Lonestar can then get a Tactical team together and set up an ambush site. Lonestar reroutes the cab and tells it to travel to the ambush site and shut down once it gets there, thus, delivering the players right into Lonestar's arms. The characters get tried and convicted and the players roll up new characters. Is this too harsh? Should I give them another chance?
I could go easy on them and have them dogged by Lonestar and runners hired to take them out by friends of the woman they killed, but something is telling me that the players need to be taught a lesson.

Sorry for the really long post, but I'm in a pickle here.

[Squinky]

Do your players understand that they can be tracked this easily? If not, now is a good time to school them.

Roleplaying is about fun, so I don't think you should devote an entire session to punishing them. I would, over the next couple of runs drop it on them progressively. Make it hard for them to get a job because of their noteriety. And when they do, make the next couple runs implicit on them not killing anyone, or suffer the consequences.

I would also have lonestar hassle them, to the point where they had to hide their faces and buy new sins. Make a couple patrol men recognize them somewhere when they don't want to be recognized (It's all good to have a battle with lonestar when your characters are geared up and ready, but I doubt they will like it if lonestar busts into their home while they are showering, or injured in the first place.) Basically, let them continue on, but drive the point home.

[stevebugge]

It sounds like these guys have made themselves this months front page news. Start slow have them be featured on a couple of news broadcasts or in a hightension press conference at city hall. Start having 10 most wanted lists pop up around town. Then step it up, bar start refusing to serve them, the grid cabs sto accepting their SINs etc. Then have the Star really make a move on them tail them with drones for a couple days then have the SWAT team bust in on them at an imopportune time.

[TBRMInsanity]

In this case I would bring in SWAT. Beat the PCs down but don't kill them. Give them all criminal SINs. Let the lawyer assigned to them give all but the worst person a deal:

The government will go easy on them if they hose the "bad guy".

This should lead to the worst person's life imprisonment (thus he will have to make a new character). Release the others (after a month or so in jail) and always have Lonestar hassle them. "Hey buddy, keeping you nose clean? I heard there was a robbery in everett last night, you wouldn't know anything about that would you?"

Given time the PCs will calm down.

[stevebugge]

Oh the free contact Parole Officer is always a fun one, especially when they start playing Johnson.........

[Shrike30]

If behaving should be old hat to your players, feel free to hit them with Lone Star raids or hacker assaults.

I'd recommend you hook them up with an NPC hacker as a "group member," or suggest they hire someone to maintain their PAN security for them. Maybe having a contact or Johnson lean across the table at one point and say "Hey, uh, something wrong with your network security? It's not turned on," and giving them a dubious look, like "Am I really about to hire these yahoos?"

If they're new to all this, dropping them into the deep end isn't the best way to teach 'em how to swim. Have one of their contacts call them up and say "Look, I don't think we should be doing business any more, given how hot you are, but I don't want to leave you out in the cold... word is, the Star is coming for you. You need to go low, get new IDs, new faces if you can. And quickly. Guy I know just clued me in, they rolled out the back door of the precinct house two minutes ago. Good knowing you..." *click* Give 'em a session or two of trying to change who they are, and then see if they've learned.

[TBRMInsanity]

You can also punish your players but increasing their notoriety and decreasing the loyalty of their contacts. If they complain remind them that people don't like associating themselves with murders.

[mdynna]

I agree, start by cutting off their contacts and making it hard for them to find gear and jobs. Give them the chance to work (hard) to get their rep back but if they continue to show blatant regard for authorities and hiding their faces then its time to teach them a lesson with a Lone Star High Threat Response team.

... Oh the kill zone of multiple LMG-equipped Lynx's....

[-X-]

"Hey guys? Isn't that our safe house on the Trid surrounded by cops?"

The group definitely needs to be taught some lessons. The kind of people who would hire a group like that would probably be looking for disposable shock troops so any job they get is likely to be a total cluster @#$%. That is assuming that any of their contacts want anything to do with them at all.

I'd be tempted to have their next several sessions nothing but running from various authorities (Who had that hacker on retainer? The mob? A mega?) trying desperately to stay alive. At the very least I'd track them long enough to deplete any resources they gained in the two runs where they went psycho. But for me I'd probably even get them to a point where they're reduced to a gang level existance at least until they can get back on their feet. (Holding up Stuffer Shacks for food which only serves to bring more police attention.)

[James McMurray]

This sounds incredibly familiar. Was it part of On The Run?

My group did something similar. Halfway through talking to her, when it was almost assured they'd get the information they need, the mage decided to mind control the hacker. It worked like a charm, but as they were leaving all their commlinks got wiped clean. The only thing they were good for after that was their new primary purpose: loudly broadcasting to everyone except the other party members that this was the group who had mind controlled her.

The group split up and the mage and face ended up driving somewhere together when Lone Star pulled them over. The face fled into the sewers and had a short combat with the air spirit sent along to help. A Lone Star mage was on his way as soon as he found out that the suspect had been found. It didn't matter though, as the mage surrendered and opted to take some jail time.

During that period the mage's player decided to make a new character because he had gotten a better grasp of the SR4 magic rules, so that guy was retired. But if the group ever gets arrested again the face will have trouble for fleeing the scene.

[GrinderTheTroll]

I'd suggest finding a new group. If that's not an option, then "throw the GM book at them".

Have lots of Lone Star show up, maybe even SWAT if they fear weapons or magic. At least let your players *think* they have a chance, but make sure they fail and are either arrested or killed.

You could spin this off and have them escape to another state, city or country and continue their running careers there before their reputations catch up with them. Or give them high-risk jobs where casualties are expected.

The bottom line is, you as the GM must take control!! It's your show.

[ryanstone]

Great responses thus far. Thanks for all of the ideas.
James - Yes. All of this happened while we were playing On The Run.

Having contacts dry up, and lose loyalty is certainly something I will do. I need to do something else though, to teach them a good lesson. As I said, this is the second time thy have done something like this. THe first time I let them off the hook for the most part. They all had to get new SIN's and places to crash, but things cooled off after several months.
Seems like they didn't get the point though. I thought I stressed that the wonton killing is not going to fly if the runer value thier careers. Looks like the point did not set in.
What kind of things should I do to have Lonestar dog them? Having them show up to do battle with them every now and again will probably excite one or two players as all they seem to care about is battles.
Any ideas as to how I can incovenince them and make life hell for a while, so maybe they will get the message?

[Konsaki]

Have some of thier houses ransacked by the Star while they are out and about in town. They lose all the gear they left at the house and cant go back due to the Star knowing where they live.
This doesnt kill off the char but hurts them in the wallet and wont give your kill-happy players something to be happy about. In fact, the one with the most weapons is a likely choice for the raid, take away the toys and the guy cant play his way.

[phasmaphobic]

Generally, runners like these guys die quickly. The streets balance themselves out in the end.

Honestly, someone needs to come around and geek them all for being morons, and then have them sit through hours of additional character creation as punishment.

[Shrike30]

Saying "the 'Star think you did it, but don't have enough evidence" can lead to more worthwhile stuff than

Have drones following them around. Let them find their phones bugged, their email read, and little cameras hidden in their houses. Have them get caught in a gel-round driveby obviously aimed at someone else, and inject something useful in the process (like those nano-etchers from SR3... give the character a Criminal SIN without him even knowing it). Have the 'Star call their mom and ask if she knows where her child is, they need to talk to them. Harass their contacts, then charge them extra for gear because they're a pain in the ass to know (I'd probably apply the +20% "police crackdown" modifier). Freeze their accounts. Implant a bug in their cat. Give them lots of speeding tickets, and then impound their car on the outstanding tickets. Cut off the water and power to the building they're squatting in. And always, always, always get some detective who's assigned to their case doing things like pulling them over when they're going somewhere and saying "Let's get a cup of coffee," or (depending on which Michael Mann film you want to reference) "You're gonna cut me in on your action."

A lot of what lets Shadowrunners operate is anonymity, and not drawing the attention of the cops. Making them work to get that anonymity back would probably get more interesting play than "Okay, uh, roll Surprise. Your door just got blown off it's hinges by a shaped charge."

[Squinky]

Lone Star snipers can make people get unexcited about combat real quick.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Konsaki]

Squinky, that idea was brought up in another thread like this one. It was concluded that, though quick and painless, it would just lead to pissed off players. You should use other ways of correcting thier behavior before you resort to, "And your head explodes..."

[DireRadiant]

Did the players know as they were doing this what the consequences were likely to be?
Do you want them to learn?

You can play them along a bit and have nice IC Consequences to give them hints. Then play out to a big scene and the ongoing plot line.

The moment a PC uses their commlink for anything, like buying breakfast, have sirens be heard a block or two away. Let them escape or shootout and escape.
Have the PC get back to their in the process of being searched by Lone Star apartment.
Have the PC being profiled in excruciating detail on the trid, an interview with former high school sweethearts, "Oh I never would have thought he would have shot some helpless woman!"
Have the PC see video of the kidnapping, someone in the bar is bound to have recorded it.
Keep escalating the forces pursing them as they escape each time. First a beat cop, then a patrol car, then a helicopter, then a Lone Star Mage (Preceeded by watches and spirits), then a SWAT team. Make sure each event is triggered by them using a commlink, or almost any electronic device.
Have the next cab they enter lock them in and start heading for the nearest Lone Star building.
Show footage of one of their contacts being gunned down by Lone Star in an attempted escape.
Have other runner teams show up looking for them.
Have bounty hunters show up looking for them.
Have a little girl in a public place point at the runner and exclaim, "Mommy, that's the man on the trid!"
Have a contact call them, "Oh wow, you still have this commlink on you?" click...
Have everyone calling them on their commlink, the news, the Star, mom, dad, everyone. After each call the sirens are closer... the choppers are louder...

See how long you can string it out before they run into the Johnson who offers them new clean identities for a little job they can do for him first... for free.

[Squinky]

[ryanstone]

Really good suggestions!
All the "comlink use causes alarms to go off" ideas are often, however, they can only be used once. Once I pull that on them they will go and get new comlinks. Getting them without a SIN and through a contact will be extra hairy since no one will want to talk to them, but will still be a pain none the less.
Having the Star bug them has some legs. Drones could follow them, and they could continually get pulled over for this or that.
Minor gun fights will do nothing to deter the players as one of the players is an annoying Gunslinger Adept from the book. He's got 15 freaking dice on his postol tests and just loves to pull called shots for +4DV on EVERYONE! However, a few manifesting spirits sent by a Star mage will really throw him for a loop.
What is the face recognition software like in the SR4 world?

[stevebugge]

[Shrike30]

[ryanstone]

You know Shrike, I may have to houserule that as well. It's thrown the game into disaray.

[fool]

switch games. It sounds like your players would be better off playing something like DnD Where it's all mayhem all the time