Target Number Systems, (Copied from SR4) Options

[nezumi]

Copied from the SR4 forum here:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=13177

Excellent arguments have already been made for both sides, but it's time to open this up to a slightly more balanced audience. So which is YOUR favorite?

[James McMurray]

This isn't any more balanced a forum than SR4. A lot of SR4 players don't read this one. I know I didn't for quite a while. If it were possible to ensure no double voting running it in both places would be best. Maybe the SR4 folks will see the link and follow it.

[eidolon]

2 marks to Mr. McMurray.

[Platinum]

true ... but since it is in a different forum you could and should see different results. (at least until all of the sr4 players pile in here to skew the results.)

[nezumi]

[Platinum]

well ... we cannot add the results of here and there then add them up and get an accurate result because of crossover. We needed 1 poll in a neutral forum, which cannot really happen now.

[stevebugge]

Voted again to further throw off any statistical reliability :)

Then again anyone who puts any faith in the numbers of an Internet poll is also likely looking in to that Pacific Beachfront Property in Tuscon listed by the Lagos Real Estate Trust.

[John Campbell]

You won't be laughing after California falls into the ocean!

[PBTHHHHT]

[Wounded Ronin]

I really don't like fixed TNs.

[Quix]

It has to be said.

SWORDFISH MUSTARD BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wobble:

[Herald of Verjig...]

I prefer variable swordfish over static mustardballs.

[Smiley]

I like the variable swordfish over the fixed mustarballs because it seemed like unnecessary tampering with something that already worked.

[nezumi]

And I ask again, who is voting for 'other' and what does that mean??

[Platinum]

it means diceless like amber.

[James McMurray]

Someone in the SR4 thread gave another alternative for other which combined the two, but it was in serious need of a hit from the balance stick. It's a workable theory but wouldn't work as given. Or at least it wouldn't work well unless you like massive amounts of disparity between varying skill levels.

[Shrike30]

[nezumi]

[Platinum]

You are obviously one of them, so you could not understand. :wobble:

[James McMurray]

I think it's interesting that it's almost 50/50 in a primarily SR3 board.

[Platinum]

[James McMurray]

It's also pretty certain that there are more SR3 players here than SR4 given how little cross posting is seen.

[Eyeless Blond]

One thing many SR3 proponents paid little attention to is that the variable TN system also included thresholds all over the place, but most of the time it wasn't called a threshold. For instance, many decking tests required three net successes instead of just one. Magic had several spells, such as Shapechange, which had thresholds. Most combat tests were opposed, which could have probably been more easily been visualized as the defender setting a threshold for success.

Thresholds were everywhere in sr3. This in the end gave you three ways to modify difficulty: number of dice (which was in most cases completely under the player's control), TN (which in most cases was higly situational and under the GM's control), and threshold (which was usually set by the inherent difficulty of the test itself.) I thought it was a terrifically flexible and useful system, and I think could have been successfully used in SR4 as well, so long as the terminology was standardized and used consistently from section to section.

The idea would work something like:

1) The player largely sets his own dice pool. Base dice would be skill, or att+skill; things like cyberware, aiming actions, and whatnot would add dice, things like calling shots or tacking on different "special" maneuvers (sustaining extra spells, etc) would take dice away.
2) TN would start probably at a base of 4 or 5, 4 is using Skill, 5 if using att+skill. The TN would be based on environmental factors, and thus highly situational. The number would usually go up; only very special "favorable" circumstances would lower the TN. Distractions like fog would raise the TN, as would other aspects of the surroundings like cover, being in melee (when shooting), or being attacked by multiple opponents (when in melee). To avoid the 6=7 rule, the Rule of 6 only adds 5 to the next roll rather than 6.
3) Threshold would be largely set by the inherent difficulty of the task itself, independent of distractions. Shooting someone at close range would start with an Easy threshold (1), medium range would be Normal (2), long would be Difficult (3), Extreme would be Very Difficult (4). The target dodging would roll his own dodging dice, whatever that ended up being, each success adding to the threshold as before.

Or, in simplest terms, subject modifies dice, object modifies threshold, surroundings modify TN.

It's really not that complicated, if you explain it right, and it offers flexability and the potential for fidelity that you don't see in the nWoD/SR4 system as it currently stands. I can see how it would take a *lot* more work to design though, which is probably why noone bothered.

Anyway, that's how I thought it should have been done. C'est La Vie.

[Rajaat99]

Geez peopel, can't we all get alonng. I mean sheesh, SR4 sucks, lets move on.

[Eyeless Blond]

Aw, and here I thought I was being constructive, at least as constructive as critisism can ever be. *shrug*

(Edit x2) Decided what I added here didn't actually add anything...