Knife Amnesty in UK, Some stuff they turned in Options

[James McMurray]

Guns stored in your home have one of a two possible consequences in relation to breakins:

1) Someone breaks in while you're home and the gun dissuades them.

2) Someone breaks in while you're not home and the gun becomes a new toy for a criminal somewhere.

A better option is just to not have your home broken into at all. Discovery has a show caled It Takes a Thief that I've recently gotten addicted to. A couple of ex-burglars talk someone into letting them break into their home, and then afterwards give a security renovation followed by another unanounced breakin to see if habits have changed enough to keep the burglar out.

In every episode I have seen where a gun is involved, either the gun was stolen, or it was secured well enough that it couldn't be stolen, and also couldn't be gotten to in time of need.

[hyzmarca]

You shouldn't have a gun to stop thieves. That's just silly. If a thief breaks in and steals your stuff then that's okay. Things can be replaced. If a thief steals your gun while you are away then more power to them. A gun can be replaced. No, the gun should be for people who don't intend to steal anything.

[James McMurray]

In which case you're probably still better off just making it so they can't get in easily and go on down the street. If they're coming with mischief in mind they're probably armed themselves. I'd rather my neighbor lose the duel than me, and having a strong outer perimeter is a good way of ensuring that.

If they're coming specifically for you, then you're probably in trouble, but even then a good perimeter will give you the time you need to get your gun out of the gunsafe.

[knasser]

[James McMurray]

That statement also left me dumbfounded, but I got busy and couldn't reply, then forgot all about it. I can only assume it was phrased wrong, as I can't imagine anyone thinking that all policemen are the sort of people that would give their lives for a stranger.

[X-Kalibur]

[nezumi]

Just so you know, the cost of a pretty standard pistol is about comparable to a SINGLE high-security lock (Medeco, the company they recommend on that show of yours? Yeah, about $150 a pop new. Now count how many doors you have.) If I lose a $300 gun when my house is robbed, I can deal with that. On the other hand, if I drive a robber out with that gun and save thousands, well, that's not a bad gamble all told.

[James McMurray]

Unless that lockbox is very sturdy and bolted to the floor it's just a handy carrying case when you get burglarized.

nezumi: You can live with the idea that your lax security may result in innocent people being killed by your gun? This isn't a $300 xbox they're running off with, it's a $300 killing tool. Sure, if they really want one they can get one, but why give one for free?

The show gives tons of ways to keep people out of your house. They don't even give every house a security system. Just stronger doors, locks, and windows can make the guy move on. And of course, a security sign is a lot cheaper than a security system, and has as much power to keep a burglar out. The actual system only comes into play if they disregard the signs and come in anyway. :)

I've never seen them recommend a company, and Medeco doesn't ring any bells, but I haven't seen all the episodes.

[James McMurray]

Also, what's a "high-security like?" I'm sure it's a typo but I can't decipher what it's meant to be.

[X-Kalibur]

A security company sign is priceless and I've actually thought about it several times. They have to take the risk of actually seeing if you have said security system. Also... a $300 firearm? I personally wouldn't fire it... A good handgun will cost at least 2x that amount.

And yeah, the lockbox is more for keeping someone unwanted out of it at the time. And its illegal to have a gun either w/out a trigger lock or a locking box in your house here in CA. And you never know when children will be around.

Of course... the box is heavy enough that it could make a decent weapon in its own right :rotfl:

[James McMurray]

Man clubbed to death with pistol lockbox. Legislature being considered to ban lockboxes. Story at eleven. :D

[Lindt]

Frankly Id like to think the cutlery in my kitchen and the caverly saber on my wall would be much more attractive weapons then the over/under in my basement, locked to the wall. I dont consider my empty trap gun a peice of home securty. Thats what my dog is for.

Damm I sound like such a hick now...

[James McMurray]

Is the dog trained? If not, it might not be as useful as you'd think. It's kinda funny how many seemingly big and scary dogs knuckle under when opposed.

One of my ex-roommates had a big dog (part lab, part I have no idea what). It would throw a huge fit whenever you got near, but if you actually walked towards it the posturing would stop. I had a Great Pyranese once that hated people he didn't know. As big as those things are he was scary as hell, but you'd have to actually corner him to get bit (which happened to a couple of friends that thought they were Dr. Doolittle).

[nezumi]

[Shrike30]

The general public's understanding of the role of a trigger lock frightens me. Most people seem to think that it's something you put on a loaded gun so that the trigger can't be pulled... and are largely unaware that the risk of setting off a loaded gun by putting a trigger lock on it is significant.

X-Kalibur: my Glock 23 was $450, including the spare magazine, cleaning tools, case, and through-action lock that it shipped with. You can buy a Mossberg Maverick for about $250. A Kel-Tec P-32's MSRP is $300.

There's a difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap." The P-32 is a .32 caliber hold-out, but one of the better-made guns in it's class and quite reliable. The Maverick is a "no-bells-and-whistles" pump shotgun that is durable, reliable, and well-fitted. Glock handguns are one of the most widespread handguns of the last 20 years in both private ownership and law-enforcement use, and I've seen deliberate attempts to get them to break down (dragging them behind cars down the road, shooting the slide with another firearm, taking them apart and wrapping the components in a salt-water soaked sock for a week, dropping them out of low-flying airplanes, leaving them in wet sand, gravel, bead-blasting medium, or paste overnight...) that haven't stopped the Glock recieving all this abuse from being able to fire, although in some cases the weapon had to be cycled manually for some of the shots. A number of good pistols retail for over $600, but a number retail for significantly less.

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Part of responsible gun ownership is keeping your gun. This doesn't just mean knowing how to keep someone from taking it out of your hand, it means knowing how to secure it in your home or vehicle in such a way that a thief doesn't know it's there, and/or isn't able to remove it in any sort of reasonable way. A lockbox bolted to a structual component is sort of the minimum reasonable level of storage that should be utilized as any sort of long-term storage arrangement. I'm a fan of gun safes that are heavy enough that their removal is impractical, but lockboxes add the accesibility that is necessary for a defensive firearm.

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[X-Kalibur]

I'm highly familiar with Glocks and how good a firearm they are. I've never seen any for that low before however. SiG, Glock, H&K, and Colt are your best bets for side arms (H&K being good for any type of firearm). Colts of course are all going to be overpriced these days since they no longer produce to the general public.

Speaking of BS laws (and things like a knife amnesty)... the US law that makes (or made, was it repealed?) gun makers liable for lawsuit if their gun is used in a killing. As if they can possibly control what is done with a gun after it is shipped off to a store. I don't see car manufacturers responsible for accidents on freeways unless it was a known problem with a model/make of a car that caused it.

[stevebugge]

[Shrike30]

Inflation of gun prices can happen due to a variety of reasons... living in CA may be one of them. Glocks are remarkably inexpensive considering their quality. I've found H&K products to be pretty reliable, but they run into the problem of being a little (or a lot) overpriced, and having had a "by Wookies, for Wookies" approach taken in terms of their ergonomics.

While there have been some lawsuits trying to seek restitution from gunmakers for crimes committed by people using their products, there isn't a law in the US that holds them responsible. Every once in a while, legislation will actually surface attempting to protect them from that kind of extortion, but I'm not aware of anything broad-reaching being in place yet.

[Dewar]

So is it illegal to own ornamental knives in the UK then? Or did someone turn in 500 letter openers just to get rid of them?

[knasser]

[X-Kalibur]

I must say, it's baffling how high the crime is in the UK given that no one has guns. (comparatively, obviously some people do). To quote Bill Hicks, it just goes to show how polite the English are... "Gimmie your wallet..." "Alright". :D

[Shrike30]

Switchblades, balisongs, and gravity knives are illegal in Washington, but thumb-opener folders are just fine. What's the stance on them in the UK?

[Enigma]

I live in Australia, where the laws are far more restrictive on owning things that are sharp or that fire bullets than in the US and the UK. I am also a prosecutor and I am incredibly glad we don't have laws (or bills of rights) allowing any person to own a gun.

I can say from constant professional experience that the rate of crime here is massively lower than that in the US because your average criminal committing a violent crime (including robbery) is massively out-gunned by any on-duty police officer. Obviously there are other factors at play - socio-economic status perhaps as well as population, but it is indisputable that readily available weapons equals greater rates of certain crimes, especially robbery (which is holding someone up in Queensland, not burglarising houses which is a different offence). It is rare for criminals to be armed with a firearm here. It is still not uncommon for criminals to have knives, but it is apparently less common here than in the US or the UK.

Personally, I am very happy to have sought and obtained sentences involving imprisonment for people who carried guns and thought that they had the constant right to do so. We occasionally get some lunatic here asserting a right to bear arms and amassing a stockpile, and usually their life in the community ends with a few years imprisonment and losing their shiny guns.

Technically it is illegal in Queensland to possess a weapon (including a knife, most bladed instruments, a firearm, replica firearm or thing capable of firing a projectile) without a lawful excuse, and it is not a lawful excuse to say that you needed it for self defence. It is also illegal (and a more serious offence) to simply produce any such weapon in a public place, whether or not you threaten someone with it.

I have had to speak to the families of a lot of murder victims. I have had to try and take statements from people who have lost most of their brain function as a result of violent crimes committed on them. I have had to help rape victims through giving evidence at trial because it's too upsetting, and as far as I am concerned every single gun and knife that isn't available for some brainless idiot to commit a crime with is a victory.

One of the happiest moments I've had as a prosecutor (and possibly the funniest) was recently reading a statement of a person charged with a unrelated offence which was quite serious. He was taken to the police station for processing, and part of that procedure is for the police to ask if he has any concealed weapons he wishes to declare prior to being searched. The guy in this case produced a "very large cucumber" from his pants and said to the police "I need it for protection in case I get attacked on the street." When criminals are resorting to vegetable protective measures, something is going OK as far as I am concerned.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Shrike30]