Some thoughts about karma, like what should be rewarded... Options

[Dog]

When I'm the GM, I am prone to rewarding players for coolness. An original idea, doing something in character (even if it means bad news), being funny, that kind of stuff. With some players, this means low karma yields per game because they are careful and meticulous about "getting the job done."

My current GM... I can't figure out what he rewards. I think he just predetermines what we'll get based on how challenging the run he made up is.

Other GMs I know will reward based on "goodness" or something like it. Good moral choices lead to karma rewards.

What about you guys? GM's, what do you like to reward? Players, what do you think you should be rewarded for?

[MacMoney]

It depends pretty much on how much the players get done and the level of danger they are in (even if they don't perceive it or through sheer luck make through it without a hitch). I usually reward good RPGing with a point or two and exceptional ideas with a point (or two if really mind-blowing, but I don't think that has ever happened).

Although I appreciate it, I usually don't reward funny stuff with anything and I certainly don't reward doing the morally right thing.

[Vaevictis]

Usually, there's a base karma award for each objective in a run; by meeting certain objectives (some of which are optional or hidden), the karma value of a run will increase.

There's also a "standard" set of bonus karma points available:
1. Being entertaining for the group.
2. Acts of heroism.
3. Major contributions towards completing the run -- ideas, knowing just what to do at the right moment, etc, etc.
4. Good roleplaying.

There are others. Usually, the "bonus points" max out at 2-3 per run, and the runs themselves range from 3-6.

Recently, it's been almost limited to 5 though, sadly. Very harsh on us mage characters, especially as the runs are getting exponentially harder with lots of cash... which is of limited use to mages :(

[James McMurray]

Pretty much the same as everything else. Runs will have objectives, and each objective is worth X karma. Survivial is worth X karma, depending on the danger level. The remaining karma award conditions are listed in the book. No book handy, but I believe Vaevictis's list covers it all except for right place right time.

[Platinum]

What no one else offers extra karma for sex? :eek:

[Jrayjoker]

I have always felt the "by the book" awards were about 50% too low. Our current GM is apparently of the same mindset, because we are getting about 10 Karma per completed run (which includes the bonus points, where applicable).

[James McMurray]

I forgot to mention that we also award 1 karma for bringing food or drinks.

Jrayjoker: depending on the length of the run 10 karma might be just right. There are official printed adventures that award that much, and sometimes even more.

[Kagetenshi]

I award karma based on what I feel the players have achieved. If they slog their way through a nightmare run, I'll award them a fair bit of karma. If they complete the run easily due to some simple path that I'd overlooked that somehow still didn't require cleverness in either planning or execution, they'll get a little karma. If they complete the run easily due to some path that catches me completely out of the blue and is brilliant, they will swim in karma swimming pools.

A bonus point is awarded here and there for saying or doing the right thing at exactly the right time, whether for dramatic, comedic, or tactical effect.

~J

[Jrayjoker]

Well, The runs we do are probably a bit less intricate and backstabby than the published modules, so ten seems a bit high if you are basing the comparison on the "by the book" awards. Most of our runs are the result of the GM having a loose outline and letting it play out.

Of course we are an amalgam of old RPGers (non-SR), old RPGers (SR almost exclusively), new RPGers (non-SR), and one total noob playing SR4 and still trying to figure out the rules, so any Karma is a gift at this point.

[stevebugge]

I find that when GM'ing I give the standard 1 for surviving, 1 for completing each major objective (usually this ends up being 1 point but sometimes 2 or 3), and 1-3 based on difficulty. I give out bonus points for good RP, making the group laugh, and particularly brilliant plans. I also will deduct from the award for Rules Lawyering, metagaming, and incessant whining. We typically are only able to play 3 and 1/2 to 4 hours a session so wasting time is a big no-no for our group, however converesly if an indvidual run lasts more than two sessions on it's own I'll toss in some extra karma to make up for taking a long time. I find that 4-7 is about typical for most runs.

[Jrayjoker]

Yeah, that sounds like it is pretty by the book, except for the penalties. That would never fly with my group as our RP sessions tend to be a lot of BSing with intermittant flashes of role playing.

[Grinder]

There are other ways to spend a role playing evening? :D

[Sahandrian]

If I penalized my players for incessant whining, the ninja adept and rigger would never advance at all...

[stevebugge]

[Lindt]

I usualy do it be how well they do. Completation point style.

You alive? 1 (If it dosent kill you...)
Everyone else? 1 (There is no I in team)
Mission Acomplished per outline? 2 (Did you get the McGuffin?)

Usually another 2-3 points assessed on how they went about things, worked contacts, roleplayed well, made good choices and followed them thru, ect ect.

[Telion]

typically I use the system as a guide. I have a hard time awarding some of their extras and tend to only use them occassionally, if they make a plan good for them, did it work good for them. I usually scale the adventure karma based on the difficulty of the run. the more the players worked for it the more they learned and the more karma, its a sliding scale.

I typically give karma as the following,
1 they sat there - at least they showed up to the session right?
2-3 they did some work
4-5 completed the run of moderate difficulty
6-7 it was intense
8-10 for those runs that should have been 2 seperate adventures, or you killed a dragon.

other categories I use are, is it online x1.5 or x2 for karma due to the slow nature of the game, also do the same for cred etc...

I suppose the biggest problem I have is deciding what really constitutes a good plan, etc.. good <insert here>

do I penalize players for being disruptive, yeah, they'll earn a -1 karma award for annoying the gm, or slowing the game down, for online games I deduct a karma for every other missed post, but will make it up if the gm misses a post, fairs fair and the game must go on.

also if I feel people have had fun I might boost the scale, if they haven't then its time for me to look at what happened. also even if the adventures get harder, I don't see myself giving out more karma even if the money is greater, sams have a larger bill in order to upgrade, and besides your more elite so you should get that extra pay. karma is awarded on difficulty to you, not to a beginning character.

[Wounded Ronin]

I used to try and give karma as outlined in the SR3 BBB but this lead to really high karma awards because of all the categories which would result in a +1 karma award. Now, I simply try to keep awards as low as I possibly can.

[Thorn Black]

I get my players to justify their karma award at the end of a game. They get the out of the book ones, 1 for survival etc. but then I ask. What did you do smart? Whad did your character learn? etc. They tend to nominate other characters as well as their own with
"don't forget you did X, that was pretty brave!"

and then I have all of my players vote for another player for a bonus player vote. It seems to work out at about 5 to 10 karma a run and I am pretty happy with that.

[Calvin Hobbes]

Our karma rules are located at http://kwgames.pbwiki.com/karma .

In a really intense game, a character can earn about 10 karma, but we average 5-7.

On the other hand, we use different rules for training times, so our group tends to have a large karma stockpile and very little time to train so we can spend it.

[Moon-Hawk]

I give awards on a team basis, so everyone gets the same amount, with one caveat. I generally give out 2-3 extra points for RPing, whichever character contribured the most, etc., but the players vote on who gets those awards.

[Wounded Ronin]

See, I used to give out ~10 karma per adventure but that rapidly spiraled into large karma pools that made the game too easy IMO.

[Jrayjoker]

I suppose if you are able to play every week, and finish a thread of your advenure every week, and award Karma every week, you are going to end up with some major players in a very short amount of time. But if you are limited by how often you can meet and how much you can reasonably complete in any gaming session then higher awards will make it feel like there is progress being made.

[Jrayjoker]

For the characters, not necessarily the game.

[Crossfire]

Hey Dog! You should tell us how you award karma in your games... I wanna how I can earn more :P

When I GM, I usually give team karma and individual karma.

For team karma, I basically follow the standard procedure (like everyone else said). However, I put the emphasis on TEAM. So I tend to be very generous if EVERYONE participated equally (if it was possible) and had fun. I especially encourage (and reward) players trying to involve other players in the game (like a new player, riggers or deckers). I think some archetypes have a harder time sometimes to get an equal share of "time" (read: fun).

For individual karma, I tend to be very generous, putting the emphasis on roleplay and game involvement. I believe you can roleplay even during an action scene or during a fight (maybe I played Exalted a lil bit too much lol). Creativity and integrity to the game are of the utmost importance. I also reward a player's contributions to the game: taking notes, bringing munchies at a game, taking care of initiative during combat and make sure to keep a good pace (harder than it looks...), cleaning the map after the end, reminding the other players to stay "in character", etc.)

Also, I tend to give random karma like during Xmas, someone's birthday or everyone with a clean character sheet after a couple runs (harder than it looks also lol).

I probably give an average of 5 or 6 points per game session and the players usually have a fast progression. However, I use a different system for karma pool that goes like this (so characters won't have a karma pool of 10 after 2 months...). I need to point out that I'm tough on skill improvement (so you want to improve your unarmed combat from 7 to 8? You've heard of a kung fu master who could teach you but...)

karma points* Karma Pool*
0 -------------------------- 1
10 ------------------------ 2
30 ------------------------ 3
60 ------------------------ 4
100 ---------------------- 5
150 ---------------------- 6
210 ---------------------- 7
etc.

* I use the same for humans and metas

Peace!

Crossfire

[Beaumis]

When I DM, the biggest chunk of karma I tend to give is for people staying in character when it's hard to. For instance when a player ignores the tactical decisions made at the table because his character is too distraced in meele combat to hear them he qualifies for boni. Or when a player ignores all his knowledge about shadowrun mechanics and still does what seems logical to his character despite the fact he "knows" it will screw up his life.

I rarely give Karma for combat even though particular smart tactics can yield some. But I feel surviving and/or winning the average gunfight is more of a requirement to get the job done than something to give Karma for. (Kinda like school, beeing there alone doesnt yield any grades. Its required to obtain the knowledge to earn grades)
I usually determine some Karma for the run's objectives and some more for sidequests. (I tend to build in mini stories in order to keep the game interesting and to give my NPCs a breath of life instead of just statistics. Naturally this means players have more options. The amounts usually reflects how big the risk is to finish one of these.

a quick example. I once let them run against Ares. A simple prototype theft of some new rifle. (Which later turned out to be the HVAR) During the preparations I dropped the rumor that there is a power struggle between the two leading scientist. (I tend to drop rumors in batches, so there is some difficulty in figuring out whats true and whats not.) One of the players followed up and figured out that whoever would get this final problem fixed first would be up for promotion. He also found out that one was much closer than the other. So when they broke in and stole they didnt just steal it but also left a copy of the better scientist's work with the worse one. Then they left a trumped up trail to the better scientist ensuring the worse one would get the promotion. Since this one knew he had to thank the runners for this he made sure the inquiry went quickly and not too thoroughly so noone would find out where his edge came from, effectivly helping the runners stay in the shadows.

Stuff like that yields bonus karma in my book.
I also award coolness Karma and Fun Karma along with the usuall stuff thats in the books.