Some thoughts about karma - Dumpshock Forums

Some thoughts about karma, like what should be rewarded...

Dog View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 02:09 PM Post #26
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	I am happy to announce that Crossfire earned an extra point of karma from me for some cleverness yesterday. As to other rewards: Make me laugh. Rescue a buddy. Pusue your character's goals. Be a hero, or an anti-hero. Oh, and don't be so loud playing dice while Charlie and I wade through decking rules. :D

Crossfire View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 03:17 PM Post #27
Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 7-May 06 From: Winnipeg Member No.: 8,532	Sorry Dog, my bad ;) We won't play dice anymore when another character is decking... We'll just have to endure those "fun times" (makes me think of a new thread...) Sleeper should have been rewarded a point of karma too (I don't remember if you gave him one). For those who weren't there (i.e. all of you lol), the player thought of listening to a fallen security guard's cell phone's voice mail to imitate the guard's voice with his social adept. It was pretty clever in my opinion and helped us a lot later during the run... Peace! (and looking forward playing a pirate in your next campaign!) Crossfire P.S. Fight global warming, become pirates... :P

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 03:28 PM Post #28
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	My question is, why aren't you playing while the other player is decking? Was there really nothing else you could do until they'd done their job? If not, could they really not start their work until you'd run out of things to do that didn't depend on them? ~J

eidolon View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 03:39 PM Post #29
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333	I do by the book plus a bit for character story advancement. I also tend to reward bits of fantastic role playing. Typically, I give out anywhere from 4-7 for a "normal" day of play. More for an extended session or one in which the players excel. Usually, I try to give blanket karma with no individual awards, but sometimes they're warranted. I personally feel like the book recommendations give too much karma when you play fairly often (say a long weekly session), so if I'm playing with a regular weekly group, sometimes I'll lower it a bit. It depends on the players and whether I think doing so will result in more griping and whining than I can tolerate. :)

Crossfire View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 03:40 PM Post #30
Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 7-May 06 From: Winnipeg Member No.: 8,532	Well, you see, we all entered a facility and the decker started doing his thing with the GM (inside the building, right next to us). The other players (including me) couldn't really do anything else in the game because we had to wait for the GM and roleplaying "in character" was out of question as we had to be unnoticed... Feel free to continue this discussion on the new thread to bring interesting ideas! Peace! Crossfire

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 03:55 PM Post #31
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	The discussion in the new thread isn't the one I'm trying to have, though. What about what the decker was doing precluded your characters from doing things (was he opening the door you were standing in front of? Deactivating the security cameras you were just about to come into view of?), and why did he wait to start it until you were inside the facility waiting for whatever he and only he could do to happen? ~J

James McMurray

Jul 20 2006, 03:59 PM

Post #32

Great Dragon

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IF it mirrors the situations I've seen:

QUOTE

What about what the decker was doing precluded your characters from doing things (was he opening the door you were standing in front of? Deactivating the security cameras you were just about to come into view of?),

A combination of the above, plus doing his best to grab as much control of the security system as possible.

QUOTE

why did he wait to start it until you were inside the facility waiting for whatever he and only he could do to happen?

Because any security system worth it's salt will not be hackable from outside.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 04:07 PM Post #33
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Two responses there: 1) Crossfire specified that the decker was in the building next door. 2) So somehow it's possible to reach the jackpoint without having to avoid any security systems, but no further? ~J

James McMurray View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 04:11 PM Post #34
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	1) I missed that, but it doesn't really change anything. The security system is just hardwired across several buildings instead of one. 2) Where was it said that no security systems were encountered prior to the decker "doing his thing"?

eidolon View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 04:12 PM Post #35
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333	Do you really gain anything from nitpicking the way someone else runs their game? I can see your tack if he had said "I don't like the way this happened, can you give me some advice on changing it?" But he didn't. He's not the GM in this situation, either. (Not just trying to be an ass, it's just that threads that take off in the "you did that wrong" direction when it hasn't been requested get really lame. Unless someone asks, it's a fair bet that they're okay with how their game is going.)

Dog View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 04:16 PM Post #36
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	Time to help derail my own thread... 1. Crossfire's first language is not english. He meant to say that the decker was inside the same building next to the other characters. It was one of those situations where they had to deck from a specific facility in order to incriminate certain people once the activities were investigated. 2. The jackpoint was the goal. They broke into the place so that they could access the jackpoint. (And bypassed the relevant security stuff on the way in.) 3. Crossfire and co. were being nice. They know I hate GMing decking runs and that I don't know the rules well, so they were trying not to do anything to distract me. Just sucked that we were all in a little room and they were getting bored.

Platinum View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 04:42 PM Post #37
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115	We all suck at the start ... but as you get better, it is an element of the game that is really worth learning. It adds realism, complexity, and a difficulty factor. Another thing that I forgot is keep the system hard but simple. If your decker has to crawl through 2-3 subsystems it adds time. The point of getting in onsite is to avoid subsystems. Read the idiots guide to the matrix, and keep your charts handy. It tells you what all the rolls are. Good on ya, for integrating decking.

Crossfire View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 05:56 PM Post #38
Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 7-May 06 From: Winnipeg Member No.: 8,532	I'm sorry about the error, I added a coma in hope it'll be clearer... (not sure lol) Dog, I think you did a good job with that matrix run. We (the other players) were lacking some "player's etiquette" there. That's why I decided to start the new thread. And thanks for backing me up, I know English is not my first language :P . Thanks for those who were kind enough to move to the other thread (so we can leave Dog's karma thread alone lol). Peace! Martin

Kagetenshi

Jul 20 2006, 09:51 PM

Post #39

Manus Celer Dei

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QUOTE (Crossfire)

I'm sorry about the error, I added a coma in hope it'll be clearer... (not sure lol)

That comma makes quite a bit of difference :)

QUOTE (James McMurray)

2) Where was it said that no security systems were encountered prior to the decker "doing his thing"?

It wasn't, but barring the jackpoint being the goal (which, as it turns out, it was) that would mean that the rest of the team would be able to keep doing their thing while the decker worked.

QUOTE (Dog)

3. Crossfire and co. were being nice. They know I hate GMing decking runs and that I don't know the rules well, so they were trying not to do anything to distract me. Just sucked that we were all in a little room and they were getting bored.

Understood. With a little experience it'll all come much more easily, as will avoiding the lulls--just remember to throw something in for the other players at the same time (be it shoring up defenses, talking passers-by out of going into the room, stealing stuff, or planting small thermonuclear devices). It's easy, really :)

~J

James McMurray View Member Profile	Jul 20 2006, 09:55 PM Post #40
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	I was picturing something along the lines of "sneak in a bit to find a jack point, then wait for the hacker to clear the electronic defenses before moving on." You certainly don't want to keep exploring while your buddy is still busy turning off the Grimtooth traps.

SL James

Jul 20 2006, 10:19 PM

Post #41

Shadowrun Setting Nerd

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QUOTE (Dog @ Jul 12 2006, 03:21 AM)

What about you guys? GM's, what do you like to reward?

Since I only game online, I usually give extra points for really good writing (and I hold the bar relatively high since it's not that hard to write something, at the very least, good).

An example for which I gave extra karma is this:

[ Spoiler ]

"Oh no."

"My city...."

Glass and steel and fire rain down to the street. The towering skyscrapers burst into brilliant flowers of destruction, spewing their metal and plastic guts to the ground below in deadly showers. Jacinda's automatic defenses spring to life, unbidden; a large barrier about her, and a second one covering her body. But only the first few shards have struck the outer barrier before she's instinctively tearing a hole in the pavement, narrow and deep. One moment she's moving at full speed; the next moment she is swallowed up by the earth.

She travels down, past the level of basements and sewers and even the Ork Underground. Down and down.

Down, until at last she is sitting in a little pitch-black chamber, held only by magic, some eighty meters below street level. The rock and earth is cold; it has slumbered here for some three million years without being disturbed, and it is slow to warm and greet visitors.

Jacinda pulls at astral space, forming a little fuzzy gray blob out of the cold. "Check the university, make sure it isn't damaged. Then go to Irina and make sure she is okay. If she has a message, bring it back to me here. Go. Hurry!"

The chamber shakes and shudders as rubble falls. Jacinda has dreaded this moment for two years now, but from the Wetaris. This isn't them; the city would already be awash with spirits if it were. But this destruction is exactly what she had been working to avoid, and here it is. She has failed. Failed to protect her city. Hopefully the damage will be limited to the billions of nuyen of infrastructure destroyed by the first attack and not extend further to thousands or millions of people, to the hundreds of other buildings in the city, to the institutions that make Seattle livable.

Uneven breaths echo through the chamber. Her own. Jacinda forces herself to slow her breathing; it changes from shallow and irregular to deep and steady. All right. This is unanticipated. The first step is to determine the scale of this attack and the party behind it.

Jacinda's little fairy-watcher finally arrives in the chamber. Just in time.

"Tink, survey the damage and tell me what has been destroyed and how badly. If you see any big, far-away, fast-moving objects in the sky heading for downtown, come back and tell me immediately. If you're attacked, lose the attackers--fight them only if you have to--and then come back here when you're clear."

Jacinda's fingers tighten around the pendant around her neck. For some, this might be a sign of faith. But Jacinda's pendant is not a cross; it is a ball of black obsidian trapped within an iridium cage and engraved with orichalcum runes. It is a focus, imbued with as much power as Jacinda knows how to invest in a single object. The instinct, when violence is used against those things one holds dear, is to strike back with violence, to strike back immediately with equal or greater force. That instinct is unhelpful here. It is strong, but it is unhelpful. Jacinda tucks the pendant back beneath her blouse.

They say knowledge is power. She will wait for her watchers to bring her power.

[ Spoiler ]

Jacinda looks out her window. Waiting is not one of her favorite things to do. It takes time and accomplishes nothing. The campus seems reasonably calm, as it should. Universities are not typically tactically relevant targets during a coup. They can be sources of protest and unrest, but that's a concern during an occupation and when inacting incredibly unpopular legislation, not when it actually comes to physical combat superiority.

It used to be that universities were tactically irrelevant since there was nothing at a university that was dangerous or could be used as a weapon. Now, however, universities are tactically irrelevant since there is almost nothing that can be used as a weapon except for mages who can be directed and herded approximately as well as cats, but who might scratch you if you mess with them directly. So now it's not only useless but useless and stupid to put universities on the top of your hit list. Jacinda doesn't normally trust in a lack-of-stupidity, but it appears that in this case the stupidity is at least being applied elsewhere.

If the New Revolution supporters manage to take control of Seattle but fail to take control of the UCAS, Seattle will be attacked by the rest of UCAS to regain it. Since the NAN will likely survive and also be upset with the New Revolution folks, they might even cooperate and allow the attacks to take place (as long as military assets take carefully prescribed flight corridors away from anything important). If the New Revolution supporters take control of UCAS and Seattle, Seattle will probably come under attack by the NAN and/or Tir Tairngire, as they won't want to have a second possible front and staging outpost for a group that seeks their violent overthrow. Either way, the New Revolution having control of Seattle is bad, unless the Corporate Court intervenes. But if the Court takes a wait-and-let-them-fight (just-don't-bomb-our-assets) approach--as opposed to simply denouncing the New Revolution--Seattle still will be a center of military conflict for quite some time. The only way to minimize the damage, it seems, is for the New Revolution to lose. There isn't apparently enough organized resistance right now to defeat the armed forces that are under the control of New Revolution sympathizers. But matters won't be helped any if the resistance members are rapidly killed. So the course of action is not so mysterious after all. Acting unilaterally isn't feasible or, likely, useful. But she can act as support to the resistance within Seattle, at least to keep people alive.

Now the question is: does she go as herself, or does she adopt a disguise? As herself, she's a little bit more familiar to the local police forces, and since they're part of the resistance, that's a mild advantage. In disguise, she'd avoid recrimination should she end up on the losing side in the end--but it seems overwhelmingly likely that should she be on the losing side she would want to leave Seattle anyway. (I hear that Auckland is nice this time of year....) So she's going as herself.

The final thing to do is to get ready. She opens up one of her drawers and fetches a pair of slender, elongated handguns that look vaguely melted. Although her magic is her primary weapon, guns have a couple of advantages: it's not so exhausting to use them, and they're pretty good at damaging vehicles with the right ammunition. Jacinda lifts up a false bottom in one of her desk drawers. Underneath is boxes of ammunition, some of which is definitely the right type. Jacinda loads it all into a pack she keeps around for that purpose; if she's going to engage in open resistance, she's going to work out of a safehouse, not her university office. She makes sure that everything is in order, and then heads out.

Within another ten minutes, after updating instructions of various watchers and dropping off the bulk of the ammunition at a safehouse (and picking up a helmet that can withstand small arms fire), she's heading back for the city center, looking for areas where there is still ongoing conflict. If she can meet up with the group of Lone Star officers who she first encountered, all the better.

It kind of loses something out of context, but the first one especially was pretty striking to me as a GM - probably the most emotive post I've had a player write - following an act of terrorism that was, quite simply, horrific.

Kyoto Kid

Jul 21 2006, 04:27 AM

Post #42

Bushido Cowgirl

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QUOTE (James McMurray)

I forgot to mention that we also award 1 karma for bringing food or drinks.

...that's one I use as well. If someone makes dinner (meaning more than popping a frozen pizza in the oven or a couple of burritos in the nuker) they get 2 in addition to the one for bringing the food.

We also give an instant Karma for a good line or joke (puns excluded) even if it is said out of character. Mind you it has to be good and make everyone laugh, not just the GM. One of my GMs also awards a Karma for showing up before the scheduled start time (lateness is kind of an issue in our group).

As I mentioned in previous posts I also have "hidden" Karma awards for figuring out clues and solving mysteries planted throughout the campaign.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jul 21 2006, 04:45 AM Post #43
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	I have an almost-strict rule against giving out karma for non-game-related reasons. The only two exceptions I grant are one karma point for a birthday, a second karma point if the birthday is on a game day and you still attend the session. Other than that, what your character does is what your character does, and what you do I may thank you for profusely in the real world, but it won't make your character more experienced. ~J

SL James View Member Profile	Jul 21 2006, 10:31 AM Post #44
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	The only time I gave someone 1 extra karma for humor was for a post that literally made me spray water out of my nose all over the keyboard and screen.

Kyoto Kid

Jul 21 2006, 07:44 PM

Post #45

Bushido Cowgirl

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QUOTE (SL James)

The only time I gave someone 1 extra karma for humor was for a post that literally made me spray water out of my nose all over the keyboard and screen.

...that could get spendy on keyboards.

I accidently splashed a bit of wine on my notebook keyboard one session & it went nuts for 15 min. Definitely a lightweight. since it was a Fume' Blanc I was drinking.

Platinum View Member Profile	Jul 21 2006, 08:34 PM Post #46
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115	you need to invest in one of these water resistant keyboard

SL James View Member Profile	Jul 21 2006, 08:51 PM Post #47
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	Eh. I treat my computer like shit. It treats me like shit. We have a comfortably antagonistic relationship.

Kyoto Kid

Jul 21 2006, 09:11 PM

Post #48

Bushido Cowgirl

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QUOTE (Platinum)

you need to invest in one of these water resistant keyboard

...hmmm,I think left my Japanese linguasoft at home today.

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