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#1
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 ![]() |
OK, so is gymnastics a full on replacement for dodge? If I have a gymnastics of 3, is there any reason to take dodge?
For example, instead of Dodge + Dodge + Reaction for melee would it be Gymnastics + Gymnastics + reaction? Or is it exactly like the book says and I'd get Dodge + Dodge + Reaction + gymnastics? |
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#2
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 ![]() |
Jesus Christ, son, don't start this argument again. From a pure crunch perspective, Gymnastics is the way. From RP, it could be either, depending on the char.
[edit]: Misunderstood: Gymnastics is a numbers replacement to Dodge. Also, Dodge isn't doubled. Dodge skill is only used during a Full Dodge action. Otherwise, straight Rea is used. During Full Dodge, its REA + Dodge/Gymnastics. |
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#3
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 ![]() |
The answer is: We need an official FAQ.
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#4
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Great, I'm a Dragon... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 ![]() |
Among other things.
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#5
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 ![]() |
As I understand it, dodge is used for regular melee avoidance (reaction + dodge) for when you don't want to go into full defence. Gymnastics can only be used only for full defence in place of dodge.
Of course if you have a melee weapon skill and your weapon is out, dodge becomes useless when you have gymnastics for dodging bullets. |
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#6
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 ![]() |
from the nice tables:
Ranged ---------- Defender Rolls: Reaction +/– modifiers Defender using Full Defense: Reaction + Dodge +/– modifiers Melee --------- Attacker Rolls: Agility + Combat skill Defender Rolls: Reaction + weapon skill (parry) Reaction + Unarmed Combat (block) Reaction + Dodge (dodge) Defender using Full Defense: Reaction + weapon skill/Dodge + Dodge For ranged, dodge only comes into play on full defense (and is replacable by gymnastics) For melee, dodge can be used as a substitute for a melee skill in your "dodge pool" and for full defense also, where you roll rxn+ weapon skill + dodge OR rxn + double (2x) dodge gymnastics can be substituted for dodge in the ranged full defense and for dodge in the melee full defense (which means you roll rxn + weapon skill + gymnastics) so, if you have no melee combat skill, dodge is good because you can use it on regular melee defense and full defense (for both melee and ranged). if you have a melee skill of some sort, you're probable better off (from a crunchy standpoint) with gymnastics, and you only miss out on the double dodge for full melee defense (which may be balanced out if you have a high melee and high gymnastics) |
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#7
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 ![]() |
Where does it say you can use gymnastics instead of dodge? Just because you can do flips and you're good on the high bar doesn't necessarily mean that you're better at getting out of the way of bullets.
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#8
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 ![]() |
pg. 151 under full defense: "Full defense can either be taken as a full dodge, full parry, or gymnastics dodge." |
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#9
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 ![]() |
As a GM I'd level a much more hefy penalty on a glitch for a gymnastics glitch compared to a dodge glitch.
And from a RP perspective you can dodge and hardly move, but a gymnastics dodge is going to look pretty silly. Espeically if you still get hit. Nothing is going to cost you street cred faster than going into backflips everytime you hear a gunshot. |
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#10
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 142 Joined: 29-October 05 From: Arlington, TX Member No.: 7,909 ![]() |
I take that to mean full defense can be: Reac + Parry + Parry Reac + Dodge + Dodge Reac + Gymnastics + Dodge |
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#11
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 ![]() |
Ah, ok. To me, this would be a bit more complicated. I'd say that you'd have to make one roll to successfully dodge with it, and then another to successfully perform your maneuver without messing up.
I think it'd look pretty cool, as long as it was done right (cartwheeling off the side of a stairwell to the floor below to dodge a hail of automatic fire for instance). Getting hit while doing it would look pretty awesome, too IMO. |
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#12
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 ![]() |
you can use dodge when it's not your turn.
otherwise, melee skill + gymnastics generally replaces dodge numbers wise (but not RP wise) |
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#13
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 ![]() |
well the explanation of gymnastics dodge is: "Characters skilled in Gymnastics can spend their action flipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against either ranged or melee attacks." the explanation for full dodge says use 2x dodge (for melee) and the full parry explanation says 2x weapon skill. the gymnastics dodge explanation does not. so i take that as melee or ranged, gymnastics dodge is rxn + gymnastics (x1).
you can use full defense when it's not your turn. and you can use any of the above options (including gymnastics) for it. |
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#14
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 ![]() |
Previous discussion of this here.
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#15
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 ![]() |
Dodge must be important in the eyes of the developers because almost every single sample character has dodge at level 2 or higher, almost every single sample goon (yes, even the Tir Ghosts) has dodge at level 2 or higher and even some of the critters have dodge, i.e. devil rats. Hell, even spirits have Dodge as a skill. If it wasn't important, then why do all those samples have it? Also, dodge is useful to riggers avoiding pedestrians (reaction+dodge) and when you don't have initiative passes; pg. 134 states
I assume this means being able to use one's dodge skill just to get away from incoming fire. However, I'm not too clear on that. As an interesting contradiction pg. 142 states
So go figure ;) |
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#16
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 ![]() |
Full Defense does, however, allow the use of Dodge. |
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#17
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 ![]() |
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: |
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