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[Bug City] Translation issue

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Bombshell

Jul 17 2006, 06:54 PM

Post #1

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Hello,

i'm an editor of a fan-driven translation of the Bug City Sourcebook. Now i got a problem with one sentence of which i can't get the correct meaning. I hope some native english speaker can explain it to me.

QUOTE (Bug City p. 41 1. paragraph)

The airport is the only game in this town; if you work, you work for the airport. Dwarfs repair the planes, orks and trolls take care of building maintenance and security, and the humans and elves sell tickets, serve drinks, and keep the overstimulated tourists “happy.” Exploitation figures heavily in the long list of activities they supply, but where the responsibility falls is up for grabs. Much is made locally of the apparent stereotyping of jobs and workers. Pressure groups have been trying to prove that a hiring bias exists, but the corporations deny the charges, producing their personnel files as proof of their equal-opportunity policies.

I mark the sentence bold face.

regards

Stefan

P.S.

X-Kalibur View Member Profile	Jul 17 2006, 07:00 PM Post #2
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626	If my German weren't so rusty I'd try and translate it directly for you. Alas, it's been about 6 years out of practice. Let me try and break it down. In addition to the other services offered at the airport, they also are in the buisness of exploitation (things like blackmail, prostitution), but it doesn't really fall under the job of any one of the particular metahuman races there.

Shrike30 View Member Profile	Jul 17 2006, 11:11 PM Post #3
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98	Wow... I'm a native english speaker, and that sentence doesn't really make much sense.

Beaumis

Jul 18 2006, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE

The airport is the only game in this town; if you work, you work for the airport. Dwarfs repair the planes, orks and trolls take care of building maintenance and security, and the humans and elves sell tickets, serve drinks, and keep the overstimulated tourists “happy.” Exploitation figures heavily in the long list of activities they supply, but where the responsibility falls is up for grabs. Much is made locally of the apparent stereotyping of jobs and workers. Pressure groups have been trying to prove that a hiring bias exists, but the corporations deny the charges, producing their personnel files as proof of their equal-opportunity policies.

The sentence really only makes sense in context with the sourcebook. Im not a native english speaker, but im a native german speaker so I'll give it a shot.

Basically the sentence says that the full amount of activities the airport workers (they) supply, the percentage of exploitation (of the tourists and collective property I presume) is very high allthough noone really knows where the responsibily for anything lies and that position (to take the reigns so to speak) is open. (I presume because noone really cares or is up for the task.)
The way I read this, it's basically saying while there is a lot of exploitation of the tourists by the airport personel, it isnt organized like it would be in a usual town. There some crime syndicate would control that and take a percentage of everything. In Bug City everyone looks out for themselves and small groups of a couple of people work together at the most. There is no mastermind behind it which is good for the individual exploiter, but bad for the group as a whole because noone keeps the tabs on what goes and what doesnt.

"Der Flugplatz ist *der* Ort in dieser Stadt. Falls du arbeit hast, arbeitest du für den Flugplatz. Zwerge reparieren die Flugzeuge, Orks und Trolle kümmern sich um Sicherheit und Instandsetzung und Menschen und Elfen verkaufen Tickets, servieren Getränke und kümmern sich um die verwöhnten Touristen. Ausnutzung bzw. Mißbrauch spielt eine große Rolle in den verschiedenen Bereichen der "Dienstleistungen" des Flughafenpersonals, aber es gibt keine Infrastruktur hinter diesen Aktivitäten. (eventuel kann man hier auch vom "leeren Thron" des organisierten Verbrechens sprechen) Es wird viel Aufsehen um die offensichtlich- stereotypische Personalbesetzung gemacht und verschiedene Vereinigungen haben versucht den Konzernen Voreingenommenheit bei der Besetzung ihrer Stellen nachzuweisen. Diese dementieren dies jedoch vehement und verweisen auf ihre Personalakten als Beweiß für ihre Gleichberechtigungs Grundsätze."

For all you non German speakers, translated back into a more readable english my sentece says:
"Exploitation plays a big role in the various *services* the airport personel provides but there is no infrastructure behind these activities."

Quite honestly, the original sentence is real weird.

BrianL03 View Member Profile	Jul 18 2006, 03:46 AM Post #5
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504	Actually, given the context of the rest of the paragraph, it's talking about something different, Beaumis. I don't know German, but here's my shot at explaining it clearly: Re: "Exploitation figures heavily in the long list of activities they supply," The metahumans are exploited by their niche. Trolls and orks are big, strong, so they are stuck with the heavy-lifting and low-intelligence jobs. Humans and elves are pretty, so they are the faces. Dwarves are small, are typically considered good at mechanics, so they repair the planes. Essentially, each metarace is stuffed into a job the airlines already consider "suitable" for their race. Re: "but where the responsibility falls is up for grabs." The author has the issue up in the air as to whether the races are taking these jobs because they're good at them, or because the airlines are being racist and giving them X job they consider worthy of X race. Was this helpful?

Beaumis View Member Profile	Jul 18 2006, 07:47 AM Post #6
Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 3-February 06 Member No.: 8,223	Serves me right to do translations at 3AM in them morning after a party. Sorry about that. Yours does make more sense. Lets get this into german. ""Der Flugplatz ist der Ort in dieser Stadt. Falls du arbeit hast, arbeitest du für den Flugplatz. Zwerge reparieren die Flugzeuge, Orks und Trolle kümmern sich um Sicherheit und Instandsetzung und Menschen und Elfen verkaufen Tickets, servieren Getränke und kümmern sich um die verwöhnten Touristen. Die Stellenbesetzung ist Klischeehaft aber es ist unklar ob dies dem Flughafen oder dem Personal zuzuschreiben ist. Es wird viel Aufsehen um die offensichtlich- stereotypische Personalbesetzung gemacht und verschiedene Vereinigungen haben versucht den Konzernen Voreingenommenheit bei der Besetzung ihrer Stellen nachzuweisen. Diese dementieren dies jedoch vehement und verweisen auf ihre Personalakten als Beweiß für ihre Gleichberechtigungs Grundsätze." Again translated back: The Jobasignments are clichee but its unclear wether or not this is due to the corps or (the wishes) of the personell. This is a mediocre translation but there simply isnt a good word for policy in german, so I have to work around that. Takes some of the seriousness out of the sentence though. Sorry for the previous error. Reading Brian's post it seems perfectly obvious but I missed it.

BrianL03 View Member Profile	Jul 18 2006, 03:59 PM Post #7
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504	Don't worry too much about it, Beaumis. I'm a Bug City fanatic, and as I've rewritten pretty much the entire pre-Bug City neighborhood sections for my players, I had to understand what the writers were trying to get across so I could type my own version.

X-Kalibur

Jul 18 2006, 04:09 PM

Post #8

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QUOTE (BrianL03)

Actually, given the context of the rest of the paragraph, it's talking about something different, Beaumis.

I don't know German, but here's my shot at explaining it clearly:

Re: "Exploitation figures heavily in the long list of activities they supply,"

The metahumans are exploited by their niche. Trolls and orks are big, strong, so they are stuck with the heavy-lifting and low-intelligence jobs. Humans and elves are pretty, so they are the faces. Dwarves are small, are typically considered good at mechanics, so they repair the planes.

Essentially, each metarace is stuffed into a job the airlines already consider "suitable" for their race.

Re: "but where the responsibility falls is up for grabs."

The author has the issue up in the air as to whether the races are taking these jobs because they're good at them, or because the airlines are being racist and giving them X job they consider worthy of X race.

Was this helpful?

I mis-interpreted it as well. Crimeny. Good call.

Jrayjoker View Member Profile	Jul 18 2006, 04:27 PM Post #9
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675	In everyone's defense, that is a difficult sentence to understand. Also, as players of SR, we tend to think of things as criminal enterprises before social issues.

BrianL03

Jul 18 2006, 06:01 PM

Post #10

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QUOTE (Jrayjoker @ Jul 18 2006, 11:27 AM)

In everyone's defense, that is a difficult sentence to understand. Also, as players of SR, we tend to think of things as criminal enterprises before social issues.

One thing that helps the "social issue" being understood is that the book that quote originally came from, the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to North America, was designed as a biased and revolutionary article in the interest of breaking corp interests. Unfortunately, they really didn't talk too much about the Neo-As in Bug City when they copy and pasted that info in (NAGNA is set in 2050, BC in 2055).

So yeah, some nice background stories were left behind when they lifted that text.

Bombshell View Member Profile	Jul 19 2006, 05:00 AM Post #11
Target Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Erfurt, Thuringia, Germany Member No.: 1,088	Hello, thanks for your help guys. You confirmed some of my assumptions and corrected others. I think i will ask you again, if i got further with my editing. regards Stefan

Ryu View Member Profile	Jul 19 2006, 09:56 AM Post #12
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309	"Much is made locally of the apparent stereotyping of jobs and workers. Pressure groups have been trying to prove that a hiring bias exists, but the corporations deny the charges, producing their personnel files as proof of their equal-opportunity policies." "Vor Ort wird viel über die offensichtlich stereotypische Verteilung der Rassen auf die verschiedenen Berufe gesprochen und Policlubs haben versucht Rassimus in der Einstellungspolitik nachzuweisen. Die Konzerne verweisen jedoch auf ihre Gleichbehandlungsvorschriften und die Tatsache, das alle Rassen eingestellt werden."

Bombshell

Jul 29 2006, 02:10 PM

Post #13

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Hello,

I have a new bunch of questions. My questions relate foremost the bold marked parts, but I think the context is important too.

QUOTE ("Bug City p.45")

The cash really started flowing into NU after the Kellog Business School’s Dean Tarkton instituted the Terror Principle, still in use today. In case you don’t know, the Terror Principle is designed to train young execs for the real world. All of the students’ income, living expense funds, and gifts are kept in accounts controlled by the school. The students receive a weekly allowance based on their biweekly grade-point-average postings. The higher the rating, the larger the allowance. The fun part is that the whole system is set on a curve, so each grade is limited to a certain number. It’s basically a proving ground for academic Darwinism.

Have the students to pass a test biweekly or are the current average ratings posted? The word "their" makes the things difficult for me. Another thing i don't understand, what happens when more students have the same result as the avaiable "certain number" per grade?

QUOTE ("Bug city p.50")

Dream Town is making a big name for itself. The employees there are quickly getting rich off their residuals, and more and more writers, actors, directors, and engineers are flocking to the Westside to get in while the boom is on. Just as Hollywood was synonymous with movies in the past, Chicago is becoming the production town for simsense (and BTLs). Information from other parts of the world indicates that simply having the name Chicago on a simsense chip marks it as a quality product.

From whom get the employees riches?

QUOTE ("Bug City p.51")

>>>>>[Y’know them super-soldier drugs this slag’s talkin’ about? I heard the bugs’re using ’em when they make their flesh-forms.
Anybody feel like tanglin’ with a pumped-up roach?]<<<<<
—Big Shoulders (04:12:58/10-15-55)

Has he doubts?

QUOTE ("Bug City p.52")

Jenkins is a powerful, rich woman. Like many 20th-century corpers, she is intrigued by the entertainment industry. She is rumored to have her eye on one of Chicago’s independent simsense studios. It’s well known that there’s no love lost between Truman and Jenkins (or, apparently, there was). She’d probably take the studio to Fuchi for distribution, depriving TT of a cash crop.

Is this a rumor they have now a relationship?

regards

Stefan

Demerzel

Jul 29 2006, 02:48 PM

Post #14

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QUOTE (Bombshell)

QUOTE ("Bug City p.45")

The cash really started flowing into NU after the Kellog Business School’s Dean Tarkton instituted the Terror Principle, still in use today. In case you don’t know, the Terror Principle is designed to train young execs for the real world. All of the students’ income, living expense funds, and gifts are kept in accounts controlled by the school. The students receive a weekly allowance based on their biweekly grade-point-average postings. The higher the rating, the larger the allowance. The fun part is that the whole system is set on a curve, so each grade is limited to a certain number. It’s basically a proving ground for academic Darwinism.

Have the students to pass a test biweekly or are the current average ratings posted? The word "their" makes the things difficult for me. Another thing i don't understand, what happens when more students have the same result as the avaiable "certain number" per grade?

I assume the professors of the classes report the current points a student has accumulated. So if you've got weekly problem sets in a physics class that are worth 100 points each, then after 4 weeks there would have been 400 points and if you had earned 360 points out of those 400 you would have a 90% in that class. Professors generally keep a running tally of points esrned and could create a real time grade report at any moment, though the final grades tend to be able to vary significantly due the the weighting applied to a final exam.

What they mean by a curve in American schools is that say only 10% of the students recieve an A or an F, 20% recieve a B or a D, the remaining 40% recieve a C. (These are not really the percentages they are just examples, it actually should follow a gaussian curve, hence they call it curve). So in a university of say 100 people only 10 can have an A, only 20 a B, only 40 a C, only 20 a D, and the last 10 all F's.

The key is that even if every single student had 90% or better on all their assignments, where on a straight scale there would be everyone getting an A, in this real curve what happens is they get listed sequentially in terms of highest point count to lowest point cound and the grades are dolled out in sequence and even a great student would get an F, if 90% of the students were Better.

Demerzel

Jul 29 2006, 02:52 PM

Post #15

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QUOTE (Bombshell)

QUOTE ("Bug city p.50")

Dream Town is making a big name for itself. The employees there are quickly getting rich off their residuals, and more and more writers, actors, directors, and engineers are flocking to the Westside to get in while the boom is on. Just as Hollywood was synonymous with movies in the past, Chicago is becoming the production town for simsense (and BTLs). Information from other parts of the world indicates that simply having the name Chicago on a simsense chip marks it as a quality product.

From whom get the employees riches?

QUOTE (http://www.m-w.com/)

2 : a payment (as to an actor or writer) for each rerun after an initial showing (as of a TV show)

A residual is like a royalty, but we don't really use the term royalty for anythine except writers of books. So if you have a popular sim product and it continues to sell after its original debut, maybe it's considered a classic, then the actors would recieve a payment for each copy sold as long as the sales continue.

Demerzel

Jul 29 2006, 02:57 PM

Post #16

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QUOTE (Bombshell)

QUOTE ("Bug City p.51")

>>>>>[Y’know them super-soldier drugs this slag’s talkin’ about? I heard the bugs’re using ’em when they make their flesh-forms.
Anybody feel like tanglin’ with a pumped-up roach?]<<<<<
—Big Shoulders (04:12:58/10-15-55)

Has he doubts?

This is a rhetorical question.

QUOTE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/rhetorical)

b : employed for rhetorical effect; especially : asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>

The speaker is emphasizing the danger posed by a hyped up flesh form bug spirit by asking a question that he knows the answer any sane individual would give is, "No way!" He does not expect an answer.

Demerzel

Jul 29 2006, 03:02 PM

Post #17

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QUOTE (Bombshell)

QUOTE ("Bug City p.52")

Jenkins is a powerful, rich woman. Like many 20th-century corpers, she is intrigued by the entertainment industry. She is rumored to have her eye on one of Chicago’s independent simsense studios. It’s well known that there’s no love lost between Truman and Jenkins (or, apparently, there was). She’d probably take the studio to Fuchi for distribution, depriving TT of a cash crop.

Is this a rumor they have now a relationship?

When we say there is no love lost between two people it means that they both hate eachother so severly that evil acts committed against the other triggers no empathetic response. I.e. no matter how badly you frag someone over you don't feel bad for them.

I think this is a play on words. By saying, "or, apparently there was" they are saying that there used to be love, but now that love is lost, and they are in the more classical sense of, "no love lost" and hate eachother with a passion.

Thus I think it is more likely that there was a relationship in the past, but that is over and now there is only hatred, or atleast an outward appearance of hatred.

Phew, last one!

Bombshell

Jul 29 2006, 06:41 PM

Post #18

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QUOTE (Demerzel)

Phew, last one!

Thanks a lot.

regards

Stefan

Bombshell

Oct 3 2006, 02:26 PM

Post #19

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Hello,

the next round of me vs. translation. I collect the following cites an marked the hard parts bold, if necessary.

QUOTE (Bug City p. 57)

COUNTERFORCE TEAMS

QUOTE (Bug City p. 57)

I once saw one of these teams in operation, but at the time I thought it was a group of corp soldiers. These fraggers don’t think twice about laying on the firepower. Must be nice to know that a full reload’s waiting for you when you get home. Anyway, these slots have dusted some pretty bad jokers, so I’m not going to spank them too much.

How strong is the term "fragger" and what is meant with "slot", thats makes no sense in german.

QUOTE (Bug City p. 60)

When the time comes, yer gonna hafta cut some kinda deal with whomever. That’s up to you. Finding the sellers, that’s the tough part. You gotta ask around for that. In many neighborhoods, we’ll be pretty fraggin’ obvious. Street brokers, as we like to call ourselves, have no real reason to hide their identities. Sure, there’s always the chance that someone’s gonna try and knock one of us over—gutterpukes try it all the time—but you think I’m not protected? You think I can’t use what I got to insure I keep it? Think twice, Mr. Happy-To-Be-Alive, and be smart so you stay that way.

How does the second sentence relate to the first. I can't catch the context.

QUOTE (Bug City p. 61)

:::::prepared by W. JACOBS (NEWSHOUND) (271161)

How legal is such a newshound and what is his reputation among a serious reporters?

QUOTE (Bug City p. 62)

Nice story? It’s true, and it’s a truth we must all live. It’s bad to see a real bug scurrying across your kitchen floor, worse to see one climbing the side of a building. We can tolerate neither.

Is this "must" more an "allowed to" or more a "have to?"

QUOTE (Bug City p. 66)

Bet your chromed heinie they are.

Which part is meant?

QUOTE (Bug City p. 66)

Anyway, on the likelihood of a new kick-a bug shaman showing up soon, how about pretty good? You can bet your brother that any such fraggers on the outside have already been trying to get in. I’ll bet that’s half the point of the fraggin’ Wall. They’re might be an army of bugs in here waiting for a new master. More scary thoughts, neh?

Is this a form of a grade?

QUOTE (Bug City p. 67)

But what about new bug shamans appearing from inside the Zone? Well, access to the metaplanes is a lot harder within the CZ. If bug shamans are recruited from outside (as it were) then I’ll bet that’s slowing down the application process a lot. It’s probably harder for the uberspirits to send their wriggly little thoughts into someone’s head. We can hope so, anyway.

I'm intrested in the part inside the brackets.

QUOTE (Bug City p. 67)

I’ve tried astral questing a couple of times when I was bored, and drek, was it tough. It was like someone had layered cotton between this realm and the metaplanes. The simile is more than a pretty picture -- I felt like I was suffocating when I tried it. I haven’t gotten a clear explanation from anyone about this phenom, but most non-astrally challenged magicians have noticed the effect too.

Are apected magicians meant?

QUOTE (Bug City p. 67)

I can’t really wrap my head around what the long-term implications of the current sit might be. I know the conditions I’m describing seem pretty uniform throughout the CZ, but I can’t say what it’s like beyond the Wall. I do figure a couple of short-term implications of this, though not everyone agrees that the dots in my picture all connect.

I think on numerated points, right?

regards

Stefan

Moon-Hawk View Member Profile	Oct 3 2006, 03:14 PM Post #20
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715	Fraggers: This is basically the equivalent of the other "f-word." The F*CK word. A pretty strong curse. Slots: Pretty much the same meaning here. It is just made-up slang. When the time comes, yer gonna hafta cut some kinda deal with whomever. That’s up to you. The second sentence is saying that, while you will have to cut a deal with someone, exactly who you choose to cut that deal with is up to you. It is poorly worded. A Newshound is a reporter with a reputation for "sniffing-out" (i.e. finding) obscure, secretive, or hard-to-find stories. There's nothing inherently illegal about it, and it's generally a complementary term, since it implies skill. It’s true, and it’s a truth we must all live. Definitely a "have to", not an "allowed to". They are saying that it is a universal and unavoidable truth. Heinie means butt. I believe it's a shortened version of hind-end. Kick-a is apparently a slang shortening of kick-ass. A kick-ass bug shaman is a bug shaman who kicks ass; one who is very tough. First of all. () are parenthesis. [] are brackets. (as it were) refers to the word "outside". It means that the author is using the term "outside" figuratively, as in "outside their organization" rather than literally, meaning outside in the open air, in the out-of-doors. but most non-astrally challenged magicians have noticed the effect too. "non-astrally challenged" means magicians who can astrally project. It is a play on what is called "political correctness". Basically, political correctness means inventing overly elaborate terms to avoid the remote possibility that someone, somewhere, might be offended. Example: you can't say someone is short, because they might be offended, so you have to say "vertically challenged". the dots in my picture all connect. This is maybe a bit of a strange metaphor, if you don't know what a connect-the-dots puzzle is. It's something children do to help them learn to count, at least in this country. You have a bunch of dots on a page, and they're numbered. If you draw a line between points 1 and 2, then between 2 and 3, then 3 and 4 and so on, it makes a crude picture. If the child counts incorrectly, they get an incoherent squiggle. The metaphor here is that he only has a little information (the dots) but the connections and conclusions that he's drawing between them (the lines) all make coherent sense. (a picture, rather than a squiggle) I apologize if I've explained anything poorly. I'd be happy to try again.

Kagetenshi

Oct 3 2006, 04:05 PM

Post #21

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QUOTE (Bombshell)

QUOTE (Bug City p. 61)

:::::prepared by W. JACOBS (NEWSHOUND) (271161)

How legal is such a newshound and what is his reputation among a serious reporters?

In addition to what Moon-Hawk said, I think I remember Newshound being an organization in Shadowrun, which would make W. Jacobs a reporter in the employ (temporary or permanent) of Newshound.

Moon-Hawk, the term "bracket" is poorly defined, and does indeed include parentheses. It also includes square brackets, braces, and angle brackets.

~J

Moon-Hawk

Oct 3 2006, 04:37 PM

Post #22

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

Moon-Hawk, the term "bracket" is poorly defined, and does indeed include parentheses. It also includes square brackets, braces, and angle brackets.

Blargh! Struck down by the mighty forces of grammar again!
Translation: Hmmm, yeah, you're right. Thanks.

KosherPickle

Oct 4 2006, 06:48 AM

Post #23

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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

First of all. () are parenthesis. [] are brackets. (as it were) refers to the word "outside". It means that the author is using the term "outside" figuratively, as in "outside their organization" rather than literally, meaning outside in the open air, in the out-of-doors.

I disagree with your assessment of "outside". Insect spirits normally reside in whatever metaplane they inhabit. To bring them to the physical world, Insect Queens must connect with a magician across that astral gap. I think this is what the "as it were" refers to, the fact that Insect Queens can't roam around the physical world looking for a magician to assist but must instead "recruit from the outside".

Ryu View Member Profile	Oct 4 2006, 08:39 AM Post #24
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309	I thought "outside" meant "outside the containment zone". Few full mages within the zone would indeed make recruiting pretty hard.

will_rj View Member Profile	Oct 4 2006, 09:38 AM Post #25
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 12-July 05 From: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Member No.: 7,496	That´s my reading of "outside" as well. Ah, and i read kick-a bug as in rent-a-car. Will

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