 "Sensitive System" quality and magic users, Can they take it? |
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 Jul 20 2006, 01:06 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 16-July 06 Member No.: 8,902  |
Is there anything stopping Adepts or Magicians from taking the Sensitive System quality? It seems like a win-win scenario for them - after all, they've already got such a strong disincentive to take cyberware that the additional Essence loss seems almost moot.
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Jul 20 2006, 01:20 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Nothing but the GM deciding if it'll be an actual drawback or just freebie points.
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Jul 20 2006, 01:25 AM
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#3
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
nothing stopping you, no. i personally don't view it as freebie points because the possibilities of a lightly-cybered mage or adept are endless. other GMs may opine different.
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Jul 20 2006, 01:32 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 16-July 06 Member No.: 8,902 |
I admit that I too have been tempted by the glory of an Adept laden with sweet, sweet bioware.
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Jul 20 2006, 02:00 AM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It's freebie points because the character concept involves no cyberware. Kinda like Incompetent: Subspace Pilot is freebie points for someone who will never be pilotingi n subspace. If a negative quality has no negative impact it shouldn't be worth points IMO. I'd want to see at least a bare minimum of cyber or bioware on someone if they took the flaw. That way it actually costs them something tangible to the character.
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Jul 20 2006, 02:17 AM
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#6
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Believe me, if I were running a game I would let a character take Incompetence: Piloting Subspace Vessels and it would come back to haunt him. Nothing is quite as fun as going on a metaplanar quest and finding oneself on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise during the Kobayashi Maru and not even being able to default.
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Jul 20 2006, 02:17 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
Bioware is unaffected. I do not allow awakened characters to take this quality. |
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Jul 20 2006, 02:24 AM
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#8
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Does canon RAW say no? Unless otherwise instructed by the book, I'd allow it. Never know when it will bite the character in the ass.
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Jul 20 2006, 02:24 AM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Do your street sams frequently find themselves on metaplanar quests. :)
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Jul 20 2006, 02:37 AM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
sure, he starts out that way. but the flaw also applies to cyberware the player/character didn't plan on getting. it also applies to cyber that comes out later, which the player/character drools over. i don't count it as freebie points because of a) what might happen, and b) the options that it restricts. i think i take a much longer view of characters, though. i get the feeling, from the way people talk and the various polls i've seen, that most people retire their characters after ~30 karma or so. i run mine for much, much longer. whether that tendency changes with the advent of SR4 remains to be seen, of course. |
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Jul 20 2006, 02:46 AM
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#11
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Never get on the wrong side of a Free Spirit with the Astral Gateway power. |
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Jul 20 2006, 04:02 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
I play a Hackmage with that very quality. It is a big bummer to have to work around Sensitive system as I want all sorts of cool implants. Cybereye implants would allow me to better target foes with spells (I can't target foes I only see with glasses) and the internal comm is such a freakin' sweet idea. Cyberbrains all the way!
Also Shadowrunning is dangerous. People nowadays lose limbs in less dangerous jobs than Shadowrunning. That cyberleg could REALLY hurt you your essence if you had Sensitive System. |
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Jul 20 2006, 04:35 AM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
yes, but you can also get biological replacements that cost 0 essence, iirc, and function at your regular stats (provided you're patient and have access to the resources, that is). |
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Jul 20 2006, 04:49 AM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i've never liked that--at least, i've never liked how cheap and easy they are to acquire, not to mention the lack of drawbacks.
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Jul 20 2006, 07:57 AM
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#15
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
They are aslo as yet unsatted in SR4, let's hope they cost more than the cyber version...
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Jul 20 2006, 09:22 AM
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#16
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Exactly. It makes a lot of things about the very existence and purpose of cyberlimbs irrelevant - especially in their price. It also makes some canon things nonsensical, like why Prime Minister Da’shr Feizhir of Shaanxi still has cyber. I mean, it makes sense for some SINless scum. But he's a prime minister of a nation (one which I doubt would hesitate to raid the treasury for his personal benefit).
Okay. I can understand using cyber to originally keep him alive. But it's been decades. Does he really still need the breather? Why can't he just get some cloned parts? It's been years in-game by 2064 when he could have had an entire clone of himself made to harvest parts in a matter of weeks. |
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Jul 20 2006, 10:04 AM
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#17
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Why? He just could have undergone the SotA63 treatment called augmented healing. After spending about two months in a jar while participating virtually, he would be as good as new... for about 20 grand. That's the one thing I like about SR4 - they state that getting cyber replacements is outdated. |
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Jul 20 2006, 12:34 PM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
I would allow it. a lightly cybered mage or adept is very useful. Even if your character concept is purist magical. Your taking a character mentality that removes that possibility and getting no advantage for it, I don’t have a problem with you sneaking a few points from sensitive system. Incompetent: Suborbital Pilot (which I assume is what was meant buy subspace) I would not allow because it is incredibly unlikely that you will have the opportunity to use it. where as even the purist mage will have the opportunity to get cyber wear and benefit from it.
that can not be right. Have games fall apart maybe but not retire. That’s only like 4-5 sessions if your taking karma right out of published adventures. We just ran threw paradise lost (GM updated for SR4) and earned 40 karma in 1 run. on the point of cloned bio replacement parts (the ones with 0 essence cost) they may be available and they may be affordable but remember they take weeks to grow. Make the next run happen before its ready. For one run you must ether get a cyber limb (and loose the essence for good) sit out (and thus loose more money) or do the run with a missing limb (well that’s what my character would do, levitate, magic fingers. A frightening inability to recognize his own fallibility or mortality (and the GMs efforts to show me otherwise keep backfiring, we killed a dragon in 1.5 seconds). |
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Jul 20 2006, 01:48 PM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
We tend to run ours until they die or retire, which has been past the 200 mark for some. I can honestly say that I've never seen a character who started without cyberware for personal reasons get any later in their career. By "personal reasons" I mean roleplaying as opposed to "cyberware lowers my magic." Once the magic book comes out, Geasa will exist, which means that sensitive system is even less of a flaw. This thread has definitely made me rethink the idea though. I'm not quite there yet, but not as vehmently opposed to it as before. |
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Jul 20 2006, 01:54 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
I'm very picky.
Incompetent I only allow if it directly interferes with the character. Of the archetype examples in SR4 I'd allow none of them. Examples of incompetence I would allow would be incompetence(binding) for a magician or incompetence(pilot aircraft) for a rigger-style character. I'd say the worst of the bunch are the VR modifiers. Generally only hackers and technomancers go VR so for anyone else its free points. Even the SR4 book suggests GMs not allow one of them. |
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 Jul 20 2006, 02:14 PM
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#21
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,365 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
It does limit the character; not a whole lot, but still. Maybe it doesn't limit a certain concept, but if you limit yourself with a concept, that's your personal choice, it shouldn't affect costs or anything.
I'm sure noone would object a street samurai with the concept, that no cyberware will ever get used to pick up that disadvantage, because cyberware is more common for them. Maybe the point value of the disadvantage should be increased for non-awakened characters (or the other way around and lowered for awakened characters)? 15 BP really seems a bit low for anyone who is not awakened (or a Technomancer), for such a harsh disadvantage. Bye Thanee |
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Jul 20 2006, 02:41 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
A physical adept character specializing in unarmed combat takes..... Scorched Sensitive system Simsense Vertigo Incompetent(Computers) Incompetent(Datasearch) Incompetent(cybercombat) Incompetent(hardware) Incompetent(software) Incompetent(Electronic Warfare) Incompetent(hacking) Incompetent(clubs) Incompetent(blades) Incompetent(exotic weapons(whip)) Incompetent(monowhip) Incompetent(exotic weapons(polearm)) Incompetent(cybertechnology) Incompetent(medicine) Incompetent(Build/Repair Aircraft) Incompetent(Build/Repair Ground Vehicle) Incompetent(Build/Repair Watercraft) Incompetent(Artisan) At which point do you look at the player and say "Go stand in the corner!" |
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Jul 20 2006, 02:42 PM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
First you bitch slap him for trying to take more negative qualities then he's allowed, then you put him in the corner. :)
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Jul 20 2006, 02:45 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
Remind me, what is the limit?
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Jul 20 2006, 02:46 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I don't have a book handy, but IIRC it's 35.
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