 System Failure, Bear with me, I just read it. |
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 Aug 5 2006, 03:42 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042  |
Think SF this way -
Religious fanatics and a mad AI go crazy. The wireless matrix rises from the ashes. Move on. Yeah, it's silly. Just don't set your campaign in that year and you'll survive. |
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Aug 5 2006, 04:17 AM
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#52
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
Eh, we are still playing SR3, that is the semi annual game we currently have going. :( I have been looking at some stuff from SR4 to scavenge into our games. The AR stuff seems ok, as junk for the masses, but not the latest greatest hacker ware. @ SL I had a rigger working with a decker (my brother). We took a Mini Blimp UAV and modified the hell out of it. Gave it 2 crappy anthroform arms, put a signal amp in it, and a few other things (if I can find the drone Ill post it if desired). I would float it up to a possible jack point. Like a phone line box or some where on a telephone pole. With its electric engine and chameleon paint it would stealth up and hook up to the jack point and let the decker hack with a radio link. I forget all the specifics, like I said we havent played seriously in quiet sometime. The drones birth was actually when I was working construction and not being a fan of high places and a big rigger fan I though about the Condor II with anthro arms to do tasks that required climbing to extrem heights and didnt take a lot of manual dexterity or torque. Like hanging those stupid banners and such in mall ceilings during holidays. |
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Aug 5 2006, 08:32 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 7-November 04 Member No.: 6,811 |
Eh, there's some fun to be had on Crash Day. The value of the Crash 2.0, at least for my campaign, was the absurdity of it. In the middle of the intricate little dance my plot's protagonists and antagonists were playing out over the course of years, here comes Deus and Winternight and the worm and God knows what else. They're ungodly powerful, they're not exactly sane, and they're about to break your world. No rational campaign I can think of puts the players in the middle of that, but it can be an interesting equalizing moment if you focus on the aftershocks. One of the themes of that campaign was the idea that the PCs were dwarfed by Byzantine schemes and cryptic masters playing a game the PCs didn't know the rules to. Those masters of the shadows seemed a bit more mortal when something even bigger and stranger destroyed the careful work of years with just as little concern as those old masters shattered the lives of ordinary people. The plot eventually continued into 2070, once all the characters finally picked up the pieces of their schemes, but the tone was changed due to that night when Shadowrunner and Johnson alike learned that they are never running in isolation. |
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Aug 5 2006, 08:37 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Thank you, Conskill - from the Wagnerian school of SR GMs. ;)
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Aug 5 2006, 08:42 AM
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#55
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
That's a pretty damn cool idea, Frag.
I beg to differ. |
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Aug 5 2006, 08:53 AM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 7-November 04 Member No.: 6,811 |
Hey, if you create an entertaining and lucid campaign that ends with the PCs battling Deus on the floor of the Boston Stock Exchange or disarming magical nukes, more power to you. I don't think I can. |
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Aug 5 2006, 09:36 PM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Being in the middle of a shitstorm you have NO control over can be pretty disheartening for players.
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Aug 5 2006, 09:42 PM
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#58
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Yeah. Life can be like that.
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Aug 5 2006, 09:47 PM
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#59
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Are you suggesting I'm a sadistic GM?
Who have you been speaking with? I'll kill them! Er... I'll... uh... KILL THEM!!! |
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Aug 5 2006, 09:47 PM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
turn off that hate engine. it'll destroy us all!
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Aug 6 2006, 09:19 PM
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#61
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
But arent RPGs to escape life, I mean thats battle cry of all the "its not real life, so stop asking for realistic rules/rules that perfectly mimic reality?" And the idea (for our group anyway) of street scum of the highest magnitude to be in a postion to be anywhere near the possiblity of stopping a mega corp or dragon or super powerful AI to be silly. Yeah we are hired to do things for them, by people like middle managers and such, but ultimately still fleas in the grand schem. And arent adventure suppose to have something for the runners to feel good about? Seems like nothing they do in that adventure amounts to crap. SR4 was coming, all the contrived stories for it were written and even if every player said their teams foiled the plots of everyone, youd still get SR4 and those stories. I would accept Conskills answer to all the puzzle making, but SR has those types of things all the time, look at the fall of Fuchi and all that other stuff. So this final plot in the history of SR is just "oh this again." Just really lame. And if I wanted to break my world I could do it on my own and made it feel real. Like Seattle splintering from the UCAS for what ever reason, the break out of war in the pacific northwest, the reinvasion of pueblo from atzlan. Christ I could make up stories all day to destroy the known game world. And it wouldnt make you have to buy a whole new set of rule books, books with huge rules wholes in them and wait for a notoriously slow release scheduel to patch said wholes. Maybe just a few location books. |
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Aug 6 2006, 09:20 PM
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#62
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
A man on the street shot an archduke and started World War I. There is nothing in fiction that can be stranger than reality. |
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Aug 6 2006, 09:42 PM
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#63
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Important fact about System Failure and the "end of Third Edition." At least some of the authors of SF (such as myself, who developed and wrote the Singularity track line) were not aware that Fourth Edition was in development nor that System Failure would be the end of Third Edition until well into the writing of SF.
So, when I came up with the ideas that would form the backbone of the Singularity trackline, I wasn't attempting to use them to explain the transition to Fourth Edition, to break the game world, or to make a nice excuse to skip five years of time. I was just trying to wrap up the Deus storyline. |
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Aug 6 2006, 09:46 PM
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#64
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
Eh. Funny, I struggled with the temptation of making a WWI reference in this thread myself. Oh, and get this, the Assasin of Franz Ferdinand was a member of a terrorist group named Young Bosnia which was supplied with weapons and various ressources by a secret society named The Black Hand. You can't make this stuff up. I could swap Young Bosnia for Humanis Policlub and Black Hand for Human Nation and I got myself a run. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:02 PM
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#65
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
And one guy in germany started world war 2, another in Russia helped kick off the cold war, a group of guys in Iran right now may start a huge war and with help from a guy in korea it could turn into world war 3. Again, isnt the point of RPGs is to escape reality and have a bit of fun? Sure in the case of SR the world is a lot more harsh then reality, but in the back of our heads we are playing a character that can and does things we would like to do in some small way. Mostly being independent and semi-powerful. Not some wage slave hopeing we hit the lotto or not get shot by a crack head looking for a fix. The SF book basically railroads your characters into something theyll never have control over (which may not have been the original idea of the writers as they started the project but then found out). But not only that it royally screws previous edition characters. Making your old characters into SR4 is a major pain in the ass and they still dont seem to fit right. Then you also loose a fare bit of abilities while waiting on other source books. I dont know about other players but we track time on our characters and 5 years in a characters life is huge in a young persons game of shadowrunning. EDIT: And there are plenty of things in fiction that are stranger then reality, we are just more shocked that that sort of stuff really happens. Like a guy at work the other day had no clue (yes hes a retard) that necrophilia is a real thing. He was shocked and sicken by the thought of it, but it must be true, the word for it exsists adn their are laws for it. So I laugh at your truth is stanger then fiction nonsense. SR run itself has many things in it that are stranger then fiction, like a dragon being president, immortal elves leading humanity through the down cycle of magic with personas such as leonardo di vinci, and many many more things. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:10 PM
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#66
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Runners are never in control - they just exploit circumstances.
And when the worlds goes nuts, good people cry 'catastrophe' - bad people sing 'opportunity'. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:19 PM
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#67
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
Dude, that did not deserve a paragraph. It's just a saying. Like this one : Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. -Mark Twain It's just a comment on the weirdness that life is. But hey, if your argument is that fiction is even weirder, than the System Failure can't be that weird to you, huh?
That's a pretty good synopsis for any SR campaign. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:22 PM
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#68
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
Runners have more control in their lives then wage slaves. As proven by your Bad people sing oppurtunity statement. A wage slave wouldnt really have the oppurtunities that a good criminal would have.
No, Im just messing with Ancient now, seeing that we lost our other place to pick on each other. My point is the stories made up to support SR4 are being used to usher in a new edition of a game that was only created to draw in short attention spanned people and get more money out of the pockets of fan boys. The things that needed fixing in SR3 werent touched or in some cases made worse. Changing the way you roll the dice in the game system doesnt fix a broke rule or concept. And Mark Twain is a fool. Fiction has no reason to stick to possibilities, truth would be more restrained. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:37 PM
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#69
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
A wage Slave can work hard and kiss serious butt to climb to the top. Something kissing butt is unpleasant but it has to be done. A runner can train hard, stick to his word and work his way in the big league. Sometime keeping your words force you to do things you'd rather not but you must protect your rep. --- Despite his best efforts, a Wage Slave can end up a casualty of corporate infighting, having backed the wrong horse when his superior is suddenly unseated (and eaten) by Lowfyr. Bam, all the hard work in the gutter. Despite his best efforts, a runner can accept the wrong run. Everything looked on the up and up but it turns out the Target, unbeknownst to even Johnson, was a secret project of personal interest to Lofwyr. Lowfyr is furious, contacts are drying up, the pressure is so intense the runner has to leave everything he has built for just a chance to survive. --- Control is a tricky concept.
Well, that is another bag if snakes altogether. I prefer SR4 to SR3 myself. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:41 PM
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#70
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Ancient History:
The idea that Gavrilo Princip started World War I is very simplistic. There were huge forces of history straining against each other already; Princip just joggled the faultline. And if it hadn't been him, it would probably have been someone else, somewhere else - but those forces were going to be unleashed. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:49 PM
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#71
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
But it is accurate. He started the chain reaction. Triggered it. Provoked it. He poked the bear. No matter how you look at it, it starts with him and that's why his name is in the history books and why AH statement is true. Now if we want to discuss the roots of the war, that's another topic and one better suited for a history board. Although I do recommend to anyone not familiar with the roots of WWI to look it up. Great SR inspiration, with all these intertwined alliances, old grudge, arms race and irrational pride (nationalism). |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:53 PM
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#72
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Yaar, I hear ya. But of all the events leading up to it, that was the tipping point.
[/edit]The really crucial moments in history are almost always intimate, even if unseen. It's personal relationships, and it's the cracks where shadowrunners shine. The unnamed man that stopped a member of the Continental Congress from being mugged, the whore who gave syphillis to the prince, the drug dealer that cut the drugs that eventually killed Elvis. It's all a chain of circumstantial events...and some of them get the spotlight, and some don't. |
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Aug 6 2006, 10:59 PM
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#73
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
IF you look further intot he assassination of the archduke youll know on the same day 2 other people along with Princip tried to kill the archduke. One failied, one chickened out. The one that failed threw a bomb at the Duke missing and killing and wounding many people around the dukes cariage. When the duke got out to help the wounded people Princip shot and killed him.
History is full of half truth and simplistic variations. All of history is heavily dependent on what has happened before, it has to be, people dont do things for no reason, not even mental cases, they too need inspiration to creat the situation to do the things they do. They just dont make sense to us, but in their minds it makes perfect sence. And I still say runners have more control over their lives. A wage slave works and breaths when their company says to, they have one way to make a living, the way the corporation says too. I runner has a lot more leeway in how they go about making a living. Even with kissing ass and all that in your post. |
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Aug 6 2006, 11:15 PM
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#74
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
And a lowly runner has to accept every scrap of a run thrown his way just to make rent . Many players forget this because they usually play runners that are top tier or more. Runners who can afford to say no once in a while. But the average runner ain't got much choice but to bend over and take whatever Johnson wants to give him. |
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| Guest_MK Ultra_* |
 Aug 6 2006, 11:21 PM
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#75
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Guests |
What makes you think then, that SR SBs and adventures are (or should) not be? There is no way to cover anything about somethingt in just one book (or even a huge stack of them). It´s for the players and GMs to fill in the gaps. When I read a plot or sb and something dosn´t make sense to me. I think about ways that it could make sense. If I don´t come up with any and it really anoys me, I change stuff accordingly to my own needs, as I do with any other elements of SR as well. There is some stuff I don´t like about SR4 and SF, but I´m fine with the SF plotline. |
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