 Where can I find the old rules on the Internet? |
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 Aug 6 2006, 03:10 PM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
Just so I have an idea how magic will work when Street Magic comes out. I'm impatient like that.
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Aug 6 2006, 03:16 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I believe the places that sell the new pdfs (rpgnow.net for example) also sell some of the older books in pdf form.
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Aug 6 2006, 03:16 PM
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#3
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
What "old rules"? If you mean MitS, DriveThruRPG has it.
~J |
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Aug 7 2006, 03:15 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 28-May 06 From: Raleigh Member No.: 8,613 |
I meant no offense. I love SR and don't mean to try and assume that anyone should take away from the paychecks of Wizkids, Fanpro or any of their writers or staff.
I always buy the sourcebooks and novels, new if I can, so the bookstores realize SR is supported. Recently I bought "Drops of Corruption" and "Aftershocks" at B and N, plunking down a combined 14$ for them. I make 8.50$ an hour working a dead-end job and I value my money highly. I hadn't realized that you could purchase these PDFs online. I suggested what I did because old rulebooks can be really hard to find. I sincerely apologize for my thoughtlessness. This post has been edited by Asheron: Aug 7 2006, 04:49 AM |
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Aug 7 2006, 03:30 AM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
[Post deleted due to no longer being needed]
This post has been edited by RunnerPaul: Aug 7 2006, 04:20 AM |
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Aug 7 2006, 04:04 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 28-May 06 From: Raleigh Member No.: 8,613 |
Edited my previous post.
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Aug 7 2006, 04:07 AM
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#7
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
the horribly Ironic part is that we're roleplaying thieves, and data theft and piracy is what happens all the time. *shrug* what can you do, really? discourage it yes, but it still happens. |
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Aug 7 2006, 04:20 AM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 28-May 06 From: Raleigh Member No.: 8,613 |
Only pirate ships laden with treasure...
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Aug 7 2006, 04:23 AM
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#9
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Beyond discouraging it, you should encourage the purchase of legit books/ebooks.
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Aug 7 2006, 04:28 AM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Especially when, unlike some companies in this industry, Fanpro cuts you a price break on the PDF compared to the hardcopy.
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Aug 7 2006, 04:36 AM
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#11
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Several companies do that. Without specifics, your post is just needless shit-stirring.
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Aug 7 2006, 05:18 AM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
pdf have its advantages, and its disadvantages compared to a book.
the advantage is full text search, so that you can look stuff up even with a small or missing index. disadvantage is that you need a device to read it, like a computer. for me the disadvantage outweight the advantage as i like to read from something thats not hot, heavy and/or noisy. now if those tech corps can get their fabled e-ink devices to market at an affordable price (about as cheap as a cheap mobile phone atleast), and said devices are able to read said pdfs without much trouble, im game for buying pdfs... |
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Aug 7 2006, 11:54 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 16-June 04 Member No.: 6,408 |
I hate to sound mean, but that's the silliest piece of reasoning I've ever heard in my life. We roleplay thieves? Yes, we do, but how about a little ethical sense? We also play people who shoot other people. What does that mean? You know what I used to do when I didn't have the money to buy it? I went without. It's not that difficult. If your income doesn't support your hobby you either find a new source of income or find a new hobby. And we're not talking about stealing to feed your family. We're talking about stealing a game. I know what you meant and I agree that some people do think this. I know you weren't talking about yourself. But I also think its just as damaging to say "what can you do?" There is plenty we can do and it would start by not supporting it on sites like this. All due respect.
Like my wife!? Badumtshhhhh! Thank you, I'll be here all week! ;) |
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Aug 7 2006, 12:06 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 135 Joined: 8-November 05 From: Toronto, Ontario - Canada Member No.: 7,934 |
But now we don't have to! I can't count the number of times downloading PDFs has saved me from buying a crapy roleplaying game system, and let me use the one chapter from a D&D expansion book that I like, without having to shill out $40-50 for an otherwise shitty product. |
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Aug 7 2006, 01:08 PM
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#15
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Two words - patent monopoly. :( Cheap? I wont hold out much hope. |
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Aug 7 2006, 09:01 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 16-June 04 Member No.: 6,408 |
But you're still breaking the law and infringing on someone intellectual rights. Any way you spin it it's legally and (in my humble opinion) ethically wrong. I know there's a large group of people out there that take the "no harm no foul" aproach to copyright laws, but the fact of the matter is that they're far more a part of the problem than they are the solution. |
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Aug 7 2006, 09:21 PM
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#17
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
heh, should we bother to turn this into a debate about copyright laws?
while i agree that the creator needs protection, the way it is today have gone to far. thing is that the books are highly unlikely to ever get a reprint as the world have moved on. they are at best in the interest of people like AH and collectors. while the distribution systems have become faster so that one can ship any kind of copyrighted material around the globe and fill all available markets in an instant, the laws that protect said material have been stretched so far that a product is protected for maybe 60 years after the original creator have come out with a replacement. the original intent was one similar to that of patents, a strictly limited monpoly for a set time to balance the good of the creator vs the good of the masses. these days the needle is in the red zone on the creator side. and when you add to that the fact that any household have today what amounts to a printing press (the computer and a printer) the laws of copyright is showing their age. when it was a huge investment in time and money to print one copy of the work it was enforcable as the number of printing presses was limited. but with the xerox machine and later the computer, the laws have become mostly impossible to uphold unless you go "big brother"... |
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Aug 7 2006, 09:23 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
Anyway, street magic is out now (at least the .pdf download) so no reason to be impatient - go buy it!
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Aug 8 2006, 01:02 AM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 16-June 04 Member No.: 6,408 |
I agree there is a difference between what the laws are and what the laws should be. But I don't agree with the idea of "if I think the laws are stupid, and the laws cost me money, I'm going to just ignore them." But developers of games, few of whom I know are independently wealthy, spend their valuable time developing these products. To obtain one without paying for it is a slap in their faces. They cannot continue to spend time on such products if the products don't make them money. Then we complain when new products are not forthcoming. Remember how before the late 90's most game developers were essentially just guys working out of their basements? I slapped my forehead at many people when they cried after these companies began to fold and they had several illicit copies of products from said company sitting on their shelves at home. Hmmm...ever wonder why the advent of cheap reproduction technology came to a rise about the same time that every non-corporate owned gaming company went bankrupt in the late 90's? I'm not saying that one absolutely caused the other, but I'm sure it had something to do with it. It's simple math. I saw folks every day photocopying their friends gaming books and converting them to HTML formats. Now it seems the only games that can continue to live are those owned by corporations that can support their RPG lines with other, non-reproducable products. And the prices of these books coming out of such companies is through the roof. Coincidence? Now, I know the story is a bit different when you're dealing with out of print books. I agree the laws are a bit rediculous there. But, again, I've never been the type of person to just ignore the rules if they don't suit me. Color me nerdy. |
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Aug 8 2006, 01:25 AM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
OK, copyright related ethical nuance for you to all ponder.
You'll all agree that if I own some RPG sourcebooks and none of my players do that if I run a game of said RPG it's okay for me to let them read through the sourcebooks so they can make their characters, understand the game, and so on. But, what if I own the RPG sourcebooks and I'm running an online game for a bunch of players who don't own the books and don't know the system? If I were to email them a PDF of the main sourcebook so they could create their character for the purpose of playing in my game, would that be t3h unethical? If so, how would you distinguish that from the table-top GM letting people use the sourcebooks at his house, lending out his sourcebooks to a player, or making xeroxes of large portions of the rules and giving them to each player so that the players could work on their characters at home? |
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Aug 8 2006, 01:54 AM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 16-June 04 Member No.: 6,408 |
The way I would see it, with only one copy of the book there's limited ownership. The player would probably eventually get fed up with having to ask for your book (or you'd get fed up with asking him for it) and get his own. The minute you make any sort of copy, especially a digital one, there's no more control and nobody is paying. You suddenly have a circulating product that anyone with access to will no longer need to buy. With the internet that could potentially be hundreds, if not thousands of copies that would have sold. Imagine what the general price of hardcopy books would be these days if profits were higher resulting from thousands more copies being sold per title. |
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Aug 8 2006, 02:12 AM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
Standard Disclaimer: I AM NOT A LAWYER. I have regular dealings with a patent/copyright attorney, and I've asked this same question. However, check with your own attorney regarding matters of questional legal practice.
Not only would it be unethical, it would also be illegal copyright violation. When you buy a PDF, you don't gain the right to distribute it. The only ethical way to do that would be if you were to delete those portions from your PDF, then reintegrate them when they "returned" them to you. Mind you, unless you bought more than one PDF, you'd really only be able to pass them to one person at a time. Even doing this (and assuming everybody was good about following "returning" files to you), if the PDF in question were DRM'd, you'd still be violating DMCA to do this. However, you'd at least be following the spirit of the copyright law. Further, depending upon the licensing terms used when you purchased the PDF, you may be in violation of your license to distribute it in this manner. Practically speaking, the only appropriate ways to do this is to have all players buy their own copies OR have the GM handle character creation. |
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Aug 8 2006, 02:34 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 20-December 05 Member No.: 8,088 |
I'm not going to comment on anything illegal. But I will say this - Ethics don't mean a damn thing.
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Aug 8 2006, 02:59 AM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 16-June 04 Member No.: 6,408 |
And we see why many things in this country are going to crap. Why don't you phone up the oil companies and tell them that. I'd say drive to their houses, but I doubt you'd be able to afford the gas. ;) |
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Aug 8 2006, 07:20 AM
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#25
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
I'm sick of hearing about how oil companies are to blame for high gas prices. You want to know who's responsible for high gas prices? When you drive to work tomorow morning, take a look at all the people who are driving those 8-15MPG SUVs on the freeway, BY THEMSELVES, to work. *Those* are the guys who are responsible, and there are a lot of them. Oil companies are only getting lucky by capitalizing off of those schmoes, and by being big investors in a very volatile commodity. Enron is a good example of corrupt business; Exxon is just an example of a lucky one. Oil prices, which link to the larger problem of ecological footprint, is not solely, or even primarily, the problem of big oil companies. If noone bought oil, those companies couldn't charge such exhorbiant prices for it. It's a personal problem, but one that's hard to see as such because it's a problem for every single person on the planet. Go to this quiz and take it. Only when your footprint is below 4.5 can you start whinning about how oil prices are someone else's problem; until then it's yours too. [/dehijack] (Edit): While I'm on my soapbox, there are lots of easy ways to lower your footprint: 1) Buy a new dishwasher/refridgerator/washing machine. 2) Invest in solar panels on your roof, especially if your roof has lots of southern exposure. This is a big one; in 10-20 years if your house doesn't have solar it'll basically be a fixer-upper. 3) Eat salads with lunch and dinner. 4) Recycle. 5) Use public transit Only the last one is even particularly painful, and all are positive steps. |
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