 ENnies:Shadowrun Wins Both Catagories Nominated In |
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 Aug 12 2006, 08:53 AM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006  |
I just noticed the news update over at http://www.enworld.org. Nominated in Best Rules and Best Product, won both beating out M&M which I've heard from people is good enough that it now widely considered the defacto superhumans game. I'm guessing SR didn't get the Best Game nomination because of art? Fanpro seems to have saved all the really good art for the supplement books, which have been great so far.
Although looking through it I get the impression that you just need to have an ENWorld membership to cast a ballot, ergo time and a valid email address. So take that with a grain of whatever Internet voting salt you want. I notice that ENWorld claims daily front page unique traffic at around 32,000, with maybe 2000+ logged in at a time on the message boards. So that would take a fair number of fake accounts to significantly jack-the-box. P.S. Being that it is a popularity contest and that SR has sold quite well, that sort of exposure to voters tends to really give you an edge. |
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Aug 12 2006, 10:28 AM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
My congratulations to all the development team which worked on SR4. You guys deserve it.
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Aug 12 2006, 01:30 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Brahm, ENWorld registers the voting IP, so you can't log out, log in again and vote twice. Furthermore, if five gamers share the same IP, only one of them will be able to vote.
In any case, these are good news. Congratulations everyone! :) |
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Aug 12 2006, 02:27 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 326 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Vigo (Spanish Kingdom) Member No.: 1,446 |
Yup, they did the best SR ever (IMO) and this comes to show it. Congratulations!
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| Guest_MK Ultra_* |
 Aug 12 2006, 02:51 PM
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#5
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Guests |
Congratulations! SR4 really has the best rules system I know. I have to agry with Bram however, that ...
I am very glad that this has change in the latest suplement books :) |
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Aug 12 2006, 02:54 PM
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#6
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
wow, that's pretty sweet!
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Aug 12 2006, 03:27 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
The ENnies are a bit strange. What makes the difference between Best Game and Best Product? Art might as well count in the latter as production values, while rules could fit in the former. Then again, they also have Best Rules. :wobble: |
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Aug 12 2006, 10:39 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 291 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 806 |
Good news. Hopefully this will reflect in sales.
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Aug 12 2006, 11:51 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
I don't know about you guys but I have that song from Karate Kid going threw my head right about now ...
"You're the best around" :rotfl: |
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Aug 13 2006, 01:06 AM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
Not to take anything away from the SR guys, SR4 is a nice game, but not SR to me and doesnt seem right to me.
I just see something wrong with WotC being second place as the best publishing company, but they won nothing else. How can you be the best and not have any other awards? I guess you get strange anomalies with opinion polls. |
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Aug 13 2006, 01:18 AM
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#11
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Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95 |
Good job, guys on the awards!
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Aug 13 2006, 05:08 AM
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#12
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
Best game was described sort of as "most fun to play", with originality of concet thrown in. Best product takes into account everything all around. Art, layout, prduction, writing, etc. Either way, was cool, I have a few pics I'll post when I get home, and definately congrats to the gang. Bull |
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Aug 13 2006, 05:14 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
Because a lot of people hate WotC, but can't find a suitable replacement for DnD among the other choices. WotC is known for very shoddy products and horrible misprints, in addition to producing what probably the most rules-heavy game on the market and trying their best to control all products released under the d20 license. About the only reason I can think of that they would get second is how fast they get their books out. |
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Aug 14 2006, 02:28 AM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 873 |
Also, only releases in the last year count. D&D 3.5 didn't come out last year, which takes them out of all the "game" categories for RPGs. They do have plenty of spplements, which could have got them considered, but although WotC puts a goodly chunk of change into each of their supplements, I don't think there's one that could be considered in the same category as, say, A Game of Thrones for sheer art and production values. Ordinarily they're one of the best games on the block for that, but there isn't one of their supplements that can compete with one of their corebooks for art and design, and that tends to hold true almost across the board. When it's going up against a core book that's taken care to go above and beyond the call of duty, they're not going to be able to compete -- in that instance.
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Aug 14 2006, 02:42 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 3-September 05 Member No.: 7,675 |
As far as I know, publishers still have to submit products for them to be eligible. In past years, WotC did not submit products; thus, they were nominated for no awards, and won none. It could have happened again this year.
OTOH, the Best Publisher award doesn't require a publisher to make a submission, AFAIK. BTW, congrats to the SR4 team. My top two votes went to M&M & SR4, so I'm glad they both did well. :) |
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Aug 14 2006, 04:53 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626 |
Awards for any particular product requires the company to submit a copy for the judges to review. The product categories are admittedly and somewhat intentionally vague as there are so many crossover products. Best Product covers anything, Best Game overlaps Best Rules and many core rule books include an adventure suitable for Best Adventure.
If SR4 may or may not have been entered by FanPro in all the categories that you or I might think it qualifies for. Awards for companies as a whole are fan-nominated and do not require any products to be submitted. There is also a fan-favorite category that also does not require a product submittal. And WotC does not submit to ENWorld. In the past they did not b/c they claimed it would be unfair as most of the competition are d20 products but I suspect that in more recent times it is a matter of fearing fan backlash. How would it look if WotC did NOT win? |
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Aug 14 2006, 05:03 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I believe that the gist of it would be they have nothing to gain by entering. The best those awards could do is give exposure, which is frankly something WotC doesn't need too much of. Especially to people that have even a clue who ENWorld is. The press exposure that would be useful to them is way, way more mainstream.
Such is the gulf between WotC and the rest of RPGs. Because every other publisher can benefit from that exposure. Even ones are only one rung down, like Fanpro. Especially the ones that are outside of D20 at a site like ENWorld. |
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Aug 14 2006, 06:23 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
Actually, WOTC has a lot to gain by entering. And, they have even more to lose. The one thing to keep in mind is WOTC tries to actively dodge any case where you have a chance to compare their products to those of another company. If they actually entered, they have a chance to prove that their products really are up to their claims. But they also risk having it proven that they're nowhere close to what they claim and having all of their embarassments aired in such of a way that leaves them unable to avoid the consequences. There's simply too much risk for them.
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Aug 14 2006, 07:26 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Like what? For Dread, a nifty little game that I believe just had a 100+ units sold before the nominations, just being nominated and then getting that Judges' Award nod is likely huge in just getting people to consider it. It basically lets people know that it exists and stands it out from the crowd of all the little games out there. But for WotC they simply have zero need for that in the venue that the ENnies are in. Because they are, for the forseeable future, a market onto themselves. You can't freaking avoid them. Just go into a store that carries any RPG materials and try to not notice the D&D books. They are in book stores where they are the only RPG books. As for the quality of WotC products, come on. They actually have decent overall quality. However they tend to be bland and inoffensive which means they don't usually stand out and spectactular. They actually have a number of good products. Unfortunately when you churn out as much material as they do, especially given that they are getting very late in the cycle for 3rd edition, you get stuff that is a lot more filler or very niche and usually little that has the spark and freshness to really drive a large number of people to go "hell yeah"! |
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Aug 14 2006, 08:02 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
Brahm, please excuse me for this, but when did you start playing DnD? Because, even with the current edition, they've managed horrible quality. I mean such horrific misprints as half of the Complete Divine pages being put in upside down in a few books. Most of the ideas they have for their current products are obviously just ideas they stole from elsewhere (like Dagon in the Fiendish Codex). Unearthed Arcana itself is a violation of a deal they had with another company. And to add to their problems, the change in the d20 License to attempt to control what products are submitted under it. Some of that stuff is years old, but that doesn't mean it stopped.
The main challenges to DnD anymore are that most of it's uncreative rulesfests and that the products are shoddy and often in need of more errata than the company itself is willing to give. Add to that the fact that most of their errata is in FAQs instead of actual errata... Basically, what they have to gain is proving they're actually producing a product worth spending money on and proving those critics wrong. What they have to lose is everything. Edit: Brahm, I must apologize for this. I've been arguing with James McMurry on another topic. |
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Aug 14 2006, 08:03 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
The hat of d02 is strong in this one.
:evil: |
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Aug 14 2006, 08:08 PM
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#22
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Damn you flipping coin!!!! DAMN YOU!!!!! |
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Aug 14 2006, 09:04 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
About 20 years ago. I bought the 3e book the day it dropped in my FLGS, and it rocked. It was just that much better than so much out there, and the $20 US price was steal. The rules were polished far beyond what was industry norm, and considering the legacy the developers were shackled with it was quite fresh. It included a CD with a computer program for generating characters. Quality, full color front to back on quality paper with good art. Sure now we take such things for granted now, but at the time this was something done up right.
An excellent example of where being bigger with a higher profile and putting out so many different products can hurt you. Because eventually some printer is going to screw up some books in your order, and then it gets multiplied and propagated and built into near myth.
Call the papers! That's breaking news alright, that an RPG borrowed a name and idea from somewhere else in classic literature! :eek: ;)
Nearing the end of the product cycle. When you've put out so much material it's hard to come up with new things, especially when your size tends to limit the size of the niche you can focus down to.
No problems, I understand. Oh god do I understand. :( |
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Aug 14 2006, 09:34 PM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i dunno. Eberron is cool as hell, i think, and the Book of Nine Swords has really grabbed my attention. it's got this magicesque system of moves and countermoves that allows for really stylized fighters. |
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Aug 14 2006, 09:35 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
/me bows and worships. Yes, it was. I was a little disappointed with some aspects, but after looking through the rest, I was excited. At least 3.5 fixed psionics.
Heh. I still remember printer screwups with FanPro. But, FanPro, Chaosium, and all of the others do one thing WOTC doesn't: They admit a mistake like that happened. WOTC doesn't post it on their website, so they get blamed. In my case, I just like to rag on them for not putting it all on the line. If they bother to take this risk, whether or not they win an award doesn't matter to people like me. What matters is they had the guts to walk in, stand with everyone else, and be judged alongside the rest of the industry. After that, if they choose to never show up again, then that's their deal.
Actually, in this case, it is a potentially big deal. When it comes to rights to use any of Lovecraft's items in games, Chaosium owns exclusive rights. They licensed those to WOTC for a bit to produce CoC d20, but beyond that they are really the only ones who should have Lovecraft's creations.
Actually, there's plenty of room. For example, my group recently combined DnD with SR and a few original ideas to create a unique game setting. Plus, Eberron proved there are areas that regular DnD never even thought to go which it currently holds a near-exclusivity to. The problem is they simply lack imagination.
I have a genetic disposition towards short tempers in my family. Thank god for violent video games. |
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