 Yamaha Sakura Fubuki...SMG?, Shouldn't this be an SMG instead? |
 Aug 17 2006, 07:46 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948  |
(EDIT: DOH, Meant Machine pistols in the header, not SMG.)
Ok, after reading about the gun and made some calculation about the "supposed" size of this weapon, ammo capacity, firing modes etc - and then comparing it to Machine Pistols I'm more and more convinced that this weapon was supposed to be in the Machine Pistols section instead of Light Pistols. It's basically a MP in a light pistol package - and TONS more efficient that the other ones - ok, the pricetag is steep and somewhat unrealistic but not even that justifies the efficiency and especially the -2 concealability modifier. |
 |
 
|
 |
Replies
(1 - 24)
|
Aug 17 2006, 08:06 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
I think it's classified as that because of it's awesome recoil. Also, without moving parts, I guess they figure it can be considerably smaller than those machine psitols. Therefore smaller and highly concealable.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 08:22 AM
Post
#3
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Awesome recoil? It has NO recoil on the first shot, and a -1 on the second one that is reduced to 0 thanks to the folding stock. :| That's TWO bursts with no recoil... Even though it MIGHT be smaller it has 4 barrels compared to a normal MP's 1 barrel. A standard machine pistol is most likely shorter in total lenght since most of the clip is inside the handle of the gun. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 09:01 AM
Post
#4
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 28-June 06 From: Sol System, Earth, Europe, Germany, Saxony Member No.: 8,796 |
for that reason, the recoil IS awesome, not awful. concerning the concealability: remember that the Fubuki has no "magazine" like the Ceska or the Steyr. so it actually could be smaller (and therefore easier to be concealed.) ant i think the image in the BBB is completly nonsense. it would make much more sense to arrange the barrel in a square. the way it is shown in the BBB it would be as horrible to hide as an MP, i agree. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 09:07 AM
Post
#5
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Im not so sure, most of them have their magazine inside the hadle of the gun, and the Fubuki has all the ammo in front of the handle, within the barrels who then needs to be longer in order to give any kind of accuracy. (Ammo stacking+extra barrel lenght) If one goes by the illustrations the Fubuki has less "height" above the handle but instead increased "lenght" due to barrel design in front of the handle. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 10:48 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Know what's more awesome?
An Ares Alpha with 6 points of total recoil compensation. I reiterate the Super-Mach 100 SMG statement: "Great, now we can flatten light rounds against armor faster than ever before." Sure, the Fubuki is good. But it's still a mite small. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 11:04 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Well, my argument against the Fubuki is mainly the concealability - perception tests to see it is at a -2, a Machine Pistol has +2 to perception and it sure fits the bill as a MP.
With Longcoat and Concealed Holster you get a total of -6 perception modifier to see it and that's just silly... |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 03:22 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
When I do up stats for the Sakura Fubuki, I just call it a light pistol and factor in the burst fire. When you think about it, it's just a light pistol that does 6P damage and can fire ten rounds before being reloaded, with a bit of fluff that says it's firing four rounds rather than one.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 03:27 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
It's not really an MP at all. It's a futuristic usable version of Metalstorm (google it), which isn't a traditional gun at all. If you want to keep the size small but impose a penalty, make the ammo hard to get and very expensive. The Metalstorm, if I recall correctly, uses something pretty close to "solid state" ammo that is all one pieces with alternating gunpowder and bullets manufactured as a whole in layers. That takes up less room than actual individual bullets lined up in a row - this thing doesn't really use traditional light pistol ammo.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 03:55 PM
Post
#10
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
Yeah, you do know that recoil is a bad thing, right? |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Aug 17 2006, 03:57 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i could have sworn that i have seen this discussion atleast ones before...
and the end of the story is, do not use the art to define the stats. this as the artist may just have gotten a basic explanation as to how the gun works, not what stats it will have. and added to the problem by drawing it as a cool rather then practical gun. allso, i think the clasifications of hold-out, light and heavy have more to do with damage then size ;) so in the end its a freaking big machine pistol as it fires light pistol strength ammo :P given that there isnt a set concealability for each item this time round, just ramp it closer to a SMG in your game and have fun... |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 03:58 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well not this exact discussion, but I know I've taken part in something similar, oh, about a dozen times.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 04:07 PM
Post
#13
|
|||||||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The recoil is awesome because it is so low that it inspires awe. However, it is not nearly as awesome as a Ares Viper Slivergun with a Gas Vent. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Aug 17 2006, 04:17 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Unlike a machine pistol, the YSF is only capable of firing short, narrow bursts. Unlike a heavy pistol (running 5/-1), the YSF gets to calculate things like armor piercing using a base 4/0 damage code, which means that while it gets a +2 DV after you figure in the burst, it's more likely than a heavy pistol to flatten against armor. The burst-fire mode really isn't that impressive in terms of jacking your damage up, and means you're going to be running through ammunition at 3x the rate (and 3x the cost, correspondingly) of any other pistol.
I think it's cute, and I'm glad it's in the game because it promotes some variety. But it's not particularly broken, so I'm not going to worry about tweaking it at all. Besides, loading half your barrels with Gel, the other half with APDS, and then smartgun-selecting which ammo type is fired allows for some amusing times :) |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 04:20 PM
Post
#15
|
|||
|
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Why stop there? ;) Load one barrel for every occasion. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 04:27 PM
Post
#16
|
|||||||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
And you are gas-venting a pistol... how? Only Machine Pistols, SMGs, Assault Rifles, and Machine Guns are applicable for Gas Vents. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Aug 17 2006, 05:12 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well considering that it is possible to Gas Vent Pistols today, I've always houseruled that you can do so provided you're willing to pay extra. (As a disclaimer, that is according to a DS Poster who provided a link that I didn't have time to check out, but I believe him.)
Also although I don't have my book handy at the moment, I seem to recall that one of the pistols in the book as being discribed as having a built in Gas Vent by default... |
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 05:44 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 |
man the picture of the YSF just confuses the hell out of me.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 06:05 PM
Post
#19
|
|||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
This is true... compensated handguns exist today. However, there hasn't been any errata correcting the list of items that can have a Gas Vent applied to them to include pistols or shotguns, so I tend to think it was a game balance choice to disallow that particular combo. The Hammerli circumvents this by having a non-existent accessory (a rating 1 gas vent) built into it. What's confusing about the YSF picture? You've got 4 barrels stacked on top of each other.
Nifty thought, but I like having more than 3 bursts and one semi's worth of a particular ammo type available. Pick your lethal round and your nonlethal round of choice, and go to town... |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Aug 17 2006, 06:44 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
It's four barrels with a special kind of "stick" ammo, or at least it would be if it's like Metalstorm. The stick alternates bullet/propellant, maybe with some sort of electronic contacts mixed in. You pull the trigger for burst fire and it electronically fires the front round, the second round, and the third round in more or less immediate succession, so they leave the barrel almost as one. That's why you can't fire wide bursts. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 08:45 PM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
Er, something like this? http://www.glock.com/compensator.htm |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 09:25 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
Considering it's four barrels, is it possible it only does a single shot from each barrel at max? Technically, that would be a SS weapon that does burst-fire damage and, if only two barrels fire at a time, handles recoil like an SA.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 09:30 PM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
I thought that was EXACTLY how that thing worked. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 17 2006, 09:32 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I thought it worked by firing one round from each barrel per shot, mimicking autofire by spitting out multiple bullets, and lessening recoil by not having them come out in rapid succession. But what do I knw? :)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 17 2006, 09:34 PM
Post
#25
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
As James demonstrates, a lack of explaining how it works allows multiple interpretations. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
 |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 3rd August 2025 - 01:56 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.