 Character Creation, Knowledge/Language Skills |
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 Aug 25 2006, 02:22 AM
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#1
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Project Terminus: Soul Hunters  Group: Members Posts: 1,052 Joined: 6-November 03 From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A. Member No.: 5,798  |
(paraphrased for space) The book says on page 76:
Your character starts with knowledge skill points equal to your logic + your intuition times 3 for free. You can purchase additional knowledge points at 2 BP per knowledge point. Max knowledge points are = to 2 times your free points. Moving on to page 106: knowledge skills represent what a character knows. beginning knowledge skills are based on logic and intuition attributes and can be further modified with BP. So question? (Logic is 3 Intuition is 3 there for you get 3 +3 x 3 = 18 free points) If these points are not BP but actual skill points then I can take these skills at these ratings: history 4 Seattle street gangs 4 security procedures 4 club music 4 Japanese 2 for a total of 18 free points. because as I read it these free points seem to be used on a one for one basis unlike BP which costs you 2 BP per skill point. SO any thoughts or comments would be nice. |
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Aug 25 2006, 02:37 AM
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#2
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
They're BP. Check out the Sample Characters later on.
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Aug 25 2006, 02:39 AM
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#3
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Project Terminus: Soul Hunters Group: Members Posts: 1,052 Joined: 6-November 03 From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A. Member No.: 5,798 |
the sample characters seem to be off as well at least that is what I have heard.
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Aug 25 2006, 02:40 AM
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#4
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Dammit. I just noticed something else I have to fix in my Covert Ops Specialist. I was using the cost of Active Skills to buy extra KS/Language skill points.
Anyway, you may as well just use skill points and the literal reading of the text. However, the text also distinctly uses two different terms: points and rating. If you received free KS rating values, it'd be more in line with your idea. However, the use of points in the context suggests a shorthand for BP. |
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Aug 25 2006, 02:41 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
I thought that Knowledge points were effectively just like BP, except you can only spend them on Knowledge skills. Therefore, you trade 2 free points for each skill rank, or 1 free point for each specialization. Please wait a few minutes while I reread that section and confirm it either way.
EDIT: Wow, I think you're right. Looks like a bunch of my characters got stiffed in that regard... |
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Aug 25 2006, 02:53 AM
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#6
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Check out the example. It suggests you're right. The first example has 24 free knowledge skill points and allocates them as follows:
Ancient Egyptian Magic 5 Seattle Talismongers 4 Seattle Street Gangs 4 Seattle Safehouses 4 Seattle Syndicates 3 Ancient Mythologies 4 Her skill ratings total 24. So, yeah, go nuts. |
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Aug 25 2006, 02:54 AM
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#7
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Project Terminus: Soul Hunters Group: Members Posts: 1,052 Joined: 6-November 03 From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A. Member No.: 5,798 |
@SL James No offence here guy I was just reading the text and it just didn't sound right. Now logicaly I would say they are like BP as that makes the most sense. Then again they may have worded it differently to try to get players to buy and use knowledge/language skills so who knows. I dropped a line to the offical SR questions email address we'll see what they have to say.
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Aug 25 2006, 02:54 AM
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#8
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Dude. Reload.
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Aug 25 2006, 02:55 AM
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#9
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Project Terminus: Soul Hunters Group: Members Posts: 1,052 Joined: 6-November 03 From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A. Member No.: 5,798 |
sorry was typeing i'm slow at that lol.
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Aug 25 2006, 03:07 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
As you guys have deduced, they're not build points, they're ranks of knowledge skills. The examples are correct, the descriptions of how to spend them are a little bit confusing. (I've seen this confusion pop up with a lot of folks when creating their first few characters.)
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Aug 25 2006, 03:27 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
What's confusing is that you get the free points, then you can spend some of your starting build points if you want more knowledge skills. The free points are straight up points, but subsequent ones cost 2 build points per point.
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Aug 25 2006, 03:43 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 734 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,646 |
I had to read it twice to make sure I had it right. It would've been simpler to say that you received (Logic+Intuition) x 6 build points only for knowledge skills.
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Aug 25 2006, 07:00 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Going from memory here, but don't think this would be quite right either.... don't skills (like attributes) cost extra for that last point (unlike 'ranks') peace |
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Aug 25 2006, 08:00 AM
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#14
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
What difference does it make? It wouldn't apply if you just gave your PC some KS at 6 using free points.
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Aug 25 2006, 10:14 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 20-August 06 From: Beantown, USA Member No.: 9,173 |
No, they don't, unless the rule is in a totally crack-addled location (i.e. NOT in the section on character generation). |
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Aug 25 2006, 12:41 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
It's on page 73, and they do cost extra. 10 BP for every rank except the last, which costs 25. Edit: The above is an example of why not drinking your coffee before you post is a bad thing. |
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Aug 25 2006, 02:06 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 20-July 06 Member No.: 8,921 |
@Lilith - I think you misread the previous post.
The cost you are quoting from page 73 is the attribute cost, not the cost of active skills. Active skills don't cost anything extra for the 6th point, but you are limited to having one skill at 6, or two skill at 5 maximum at character creation. (SR4, p. 75) Also, the build point chart on p. 88 seems to confirm this, since it lists the extra cost for bumping an attribute to 6, but does not list a similar cost for skills. As for knowledge skills, the verbiage is a bit confusing. Maybe if it said something like "1 free point = 1 knowledge skill point" somewhere in that section, it would clear that up. As it reads now, it is difficult to separate build points, free knowledge skill points, and knowledge skill points... |
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Aug 25 2006, 05:10 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
Note my edit.
Actually, it's very easy. Here, let me quote it to you.
Basically, it's laying out the difference right there: One skill point does not equal one build point. If you check the table, it lists BP to SP conversions (including for Active Skills). The problem, of course, is that using just the table also can lead to confusion (in fact, for awhile, I thought it meant you started with free BP). You have to use those two sections, plus the Active Skills section, together. It's about like the Burst Fire fiasco I argued earlier. |
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