Mystic Adept/Maximum Force, What is max force for a mystic adept? Options

[Demerzel]

Well, this is going way off topic, but the Mystic Adept is probably a good enough way to handle an anti-magic adept. Without really even house rules, you just need an appropriate mentor spirit. A sort of anti-magic mentor spirit. Modifiers like +2 die to any couterspelling or banishing tests, -2 die to any spellcasting or summoning tests. You'd still be able to cast your mana static, albeit with a penalty, but you could simply call it playing out of mentor spirit type to start throwing toxic waves.

[Moon-Hawk]

Good call. Probably a more elegant solution.

[lorechaser]

Mountain.

+2 to counterspelling, +2 to earth spirits, you can't change your mind.

That's why my counterspell mystic adept gunbunny has. :)

[Cabral]

Alternatively, you could write it up as an Aspected Magacian variant. -4 dice pool on tests other than Counterspelling, Banishing, Astral Combat (not normally applicable to a Mystic Adept) and Assening. Probably worth a +10 BP negative quality using the other Street Magic Aspects as a judge ... though I'd lean towards +5 BP.

[lorechaser]

I'd say it's a -5 for mystic adepts, and -10 for magicians.

[Cabral]

That isn't really fitting with the way they work in Street Magic. A Mystic Adept aspected towards Enchanting costs 0 net points (+10-10), but remember that ehy can also only spend 25 more points on positive qualities and 25 more on negative.

Looking at it again, I'd call it a 5 BP negative quality.

[Mekalus]

Ok I am the aforementioned character. Thought I would post the Actual build here for all to see how the points were spent. I am of course hoping for an official ruling and wish they had erratted this a long time ago.
There seems to be this current running under all these debates that the MA is either too gimped or too powerful. What happened to balanced? Take the following list as you will (Hopefully I don't miss anything):

-Being a mystic adept means paying 5 more BP's to have access to casting spells with no access to the astral realm(Unless you decide to spend an adept point to be able to percieve that realm)

-You have NO hope of being as effective as a full mage at casting spells as you dont get the dice they do for casting. Mages with magic rating 6 get 6 dice for that attribute where as MA's get only as many dice as they allocated for magic use. This means MA's will not cast the spell as well. In my characters case he gets 7 dice total(instead of 12 for the same cost skill points wise) for casting the spell (Skill at 4 +2 manipulation spells specializtion +1 since "Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with magic based skills.")

-You are paying more BP's for less points to spend in adept abilities

So far no argument from either side. The point of contention is with spell force (obviously this needs an errata) Im obviously in the camp that sides with the full magic attribute being the limiting factor in spell force. I could quote the book however we have all read it. I think when you take the whole mystic adept section its very clear but that is obviously my opinion. Anyway here is the build

David Rehcsif aka Dead Zone
RACE: Dwarf (25 BP)

ATTRIBUTES (195 BP)
Body: 4
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 4
Edge: 2
Magic: 6 (5 to adept 1 to magic skills)

Essence: 6
Initiative: 6
Initiative Passes: 1
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10

ACTIVE SKILLS (158 BP)
Firearms Group:Level 3 (30)
-Automatics
-Longarms
-Pistols
Stealth Group:Level 3 (30)
-Disguise
-Infiltration
-Palming
-Shadowing
Banishing Skill: Level 4 (16)
Counterspelling Skill: Level 7 (Combat Spell Specialization) (34)
Perception Skill:Level 2 (Visual Specialization) (10)
Hardware Skill: Level 2 (Maglocks Specialization) (10)
Spellcasting Skill:Level 4 (Manipulation Specialization) (18)
Dodge Skill:Level 2 (Ranged Specialization) (10)

KNOWLEDGE SKILLS (15 FREE BP)
North American Arms Dealers: Level 3
Seattle Safehouses: Level 3
Jewelry Appraisal: Level 4
Board Games: Level 2

LANGUAGES SKILLS
English: N (Lingo:Cityspeak)
Latin: 2

QUALITIES (0 BP)
Aptitude:CounterSpelling(10)
Mystic Adept (10)
Murky Link (10)
Mentor Spirit (Mountain) (5)
Bad Luck (+20)
Talisman Geas (Gold mountain with siler inlay top pendant worn on steel chain around neck) (+10)
SINner (+5)

ADEPT POWERS (5 POINTS)
Spell Resistance Level 4 (2)
Cloak Level 6(1.5)
Magic Sence(.5)
Piercing Senses Level 4(1)

SPELLS (3 BP)
Mana Static

CONTACTS (4BP)
Fixer 2/2

RESOURCES (15 BP for 75,000 :nuyen: )

[lorechaser]

You're actually -10 on Qualities, based on this.

What Adept powers are you taking? I'm always a huge fan of taking synaptic boosters 2, and giving up one point of Adept powers.

It's -1 essence, and 32 bp, so it's a big cost, but....

[Demerzel]

You're short changing yourselfo n knowledge skills.
It's not (Int + Log) x 3 Build Points, it's (Int + Log) * 3 Skill Points.

[Mekalus]

Ah whoops sorry left Aptitude out and thanks for the correction on the Knowledge skills. I also added in what adept powers he chose.

[Demerzel]

Edit: Nevermind.

[Jaid]

SINner is an adept power? :D

[lorechaser]

You haven't seen all the recent references to Pornomancer Adepts, have you? ;)

Personally, being a huge fan of init passes, I'd drop a point of spell resistance and 2 points of cloak (or one cloak, one pierce) and find a way to get Rank 2 Synaptic Boosters. That's a single point of essence (read it like a point of magic) to get 2 extra passes and +2 reaction. There's very little downside to that.

[Demerzel]

Very little downside except that it's not what his character concept is about., and the cost in cash makes it a huge BP cost, and that the lost ability to initiate increase his magic and actually get he adept speed power... Oh never mind there's a ton of downsides.

And what about spells? Are you starting with none, or forgot to list them?

[Demerzel]

25 (Dwarf) + 195 (Attributes) + 158 (Skills) = 378, leaves 22 points? Was this 11 spells? Or spells + Contacts?

[lorechaser]

Lost ability to initiate?

[Demerzel]

You can initiate, but now you can't use that ability to enhance your reaction/init.

[Jaid]

[lorechaser]

That's pretty much my argument, yeah.

You can spend 1 "magic' via essence loss, for 2 ips. Or you can spent 3 adept points on it.

You do lose the 4 ip option, but really, 4 ips are only useful if you're a dedicated combatant. The difference between 1 and 3 is far more than the difference between 3 and 4.

The char does look good.

If I were building it, I'd drop counterspelling to 6, rather than 7 (saving 14 bp), and pick a weapon - say pistols. Get pistols 3, that's 18 bp.

18 + 14. Hmmm. 18 +14. 32. What can one do with 32 bps....

Ah! Synaptic Boost 2! ;)

I know that you aren't focused on combat, but really, it's going to hit you. Having 6 dice for your combat skill, you could really use 3 shots a round, to equalize things.

If you can find 2 more points, you could also spec in Semi-Automatics. Now you're up to 8 dice to roll when shooting, plus your pistol.

[Mekalus]

OK editted once more and added in the things I left off earlier that will show where the missing 22 points were spent. (Didn't think anyone would care) His background hasn't leant itself to him being particularly quick in a fight or otherwise and his focus is antimagic. Here is his background;

David spent his early years the typical kid of wage slave parents working for a mid range corp that was doing ok but wasn't steller enough to be noticed by any of the AAA mega's. Davids dad did better than most since he was a magic user. This brought extra perks. Everything seemed to be going well until Davids dad just didn't come home one night. After searching for a week just as suddenly and mysteriously as he disappeared Davids dad reappeared. Except he was a vary changed man. The corp they were with kicked them out of the housing and fired his father for no apparent reason. It wasn't until after his mom left that David discovered his father could no longer cast magic. That he had in fact 'burnt out' as he called it. Life became very hard then but David still had his father who did everything he could to provide for his son. He spent countless hours teaching his son the motions and theories behind magic and how to deal with it as a mundane. They took a trip one year when David was 14 out into NAN territory. How his father could afford the passes needed David didn't know, nor did he care. It ended up being the trip that changed his life. The idea had been for his father to teach him about some of the paranimals that frequented the region and how to avoid them. They had a guide and David was certain the guide was also there to protect them should they have any problems. Late one night though a very normal critter had found its way into Davids sleeping bag and when David climbed in he got stung by a scorpion. It was this event and the hallucinations that the poison induced fever brought that introduced David to what became his mentor in the Spirit world.
Known to David only as Brock this Spirit seemed to him to look like it was made of rock and in fact was shaped like a mountain. It wasn't until a few weeks later that David saw Brock again, this time in a dream, that he began to realize that Brock might be real and not just a delusion. Over the course of the next few years Brock began teaching David that he in fact had magical access but not like his father. Through a combination of his fathers and Brocks teachings David found his path and started down a road that his father had traveled until he had lost his abilities. It was just after his 21'st birthday that the final major event to date in Davids life came about that pushed him off the path his father had him on and forever into the shadows.
It was late one night and David had been out with his friends for one last fling before going off to a megacorps training facility to be tested for possible employment/training with that corp. He got home and found the door ajar and got that tingling sensation Brock had taught him was his ability to sense magic in the area. Rushing into the room he came in just in time to see his father fall to some sort of spell cast by a tall elf who could be nothing other than a mage. The mage was very fast and before David had realized it had cast the same spell at him. Reacting instinctively David countered the spell. He then took the moment of confusion that caused the elf to get to his fathers gun and shoot him. Things went from bad to worse as the elf happened to have a spirit on hand and ordered it to attack. David did the first thing that came to mind and that was to flood the area with static. His father had taught him this spell and David liked it as it meant that casting spells would be hard and spirits became much weaker. David in his adrenaline hyped state managed to cast it so well that the spirit simply vanished. The elf died and so did Davids father. Davids fathers last words were a warning to not trust the corps and a name of a fixer who would help him disappear.

Somewhat rough but anyway now you have an idea of what this character is about.