Ok, so I see, and have read, the previous thread and it doesn't seem to come to a conclusion.
To me, "Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based skills." explains it.
But the next parts, "For all other purposes, including the determination of
the maximum level for adept powers, the character’s full Magic
attribute is used. Such a character will not have as many adept
powers as most other adepts, nor will they be able to cast spells
with the same skill as true magicians." really throw it for a loop.
Yes, I understand it's the GM's call, but a maximum force of 2 and 12 really do not compare. (1 and 6 w/out overcasting)
And it says "can not cast spells with the same skill..." Is that literaly skill or not?
For some background, the character in question is a (cool concept) antimagic mystic adept, and his only spell is Mana Static, which relies on successes(which is dependent on force) and a ruling one way can change everything the other way.
I just want to get some clear logic(or if there has been an official ruling? I feel like this is hackmaster now, heh). But also, is the Mystic Adept with a Magic of 1 for spellcasting weakened enough with his max force being based off of his total attribute and missing a few dice on the rolls, or not? This, of course, barring an official ruling. I don't want to make the character not fun to play(although he swears left and right he'll change it if he needs to).
Thanks everyone, it's been forever since I've been on the forums!
Full Version: Mystic Adept/Maximum Force
Here's what it says right above the text you quoted:
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 186) |
| Some adepts choose to learn less than their maximum number of adept powers, preserving some of their Power Points for spellcasting or conjuring.... Characters who wish to become mystic adepts have the option of splitting their Magic attribute between spellcasting and conjuring or physical abilities. For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities, the character gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase adept powers. |
What this means (unless I'm very much mistaken) is that you decide how many of your total Magic points are used with mana-based skills and how many will be used for physical ablilities. For example, if you have 5 total Magic Points, you might decide to reserve 3 points for Magician powers and 2 points for Adept powers. Whenever you would have to make a dice roll to use your Magician skills (like Spellcasting or Conjuring), you would roll 3 + your skill rank, and whenever you would have to make a dice roll using your Adept skills, you would roll 2 + your skill rank (or whatever). You would also have only the 2 Adept points you reserved for buying your Adept powers. If you earn a new Magic point with karma, you'll have to decide whether to add the point to your Magician pool or your Adept pool. Does that make sense?
| QUOTE (bahwi) |
| "Such a character will not have as many adept powers as most other adepts, nor will they be able to cast spells with the same skill as true magicians." |
I read that line in a totally different way.
I see it as explaining that an Adept doesn’t have the same skill as a mage because they haven’t devoted as much of their time and devotion to magic spells.
It’s the same as saying “Lebron James cannot play basketball with the same skill as Michael Jordan.”
Yes, there is a game rule tied to it, but that particular line in the rules is not itself a rule. Understand?
| QUOTE (FanGirl) |
| What this means (unless I'm very much mistaken) is that you decide how many of your total Magic points are used with mana-based skills and how many will be used for physical ablilities. For example, if you have 5 total Magic Points, you might decide to reserve 3 points for Magician powers and 2 points for Adept powers. Whenever you would have to make a dice roll to use your Magician skills (like Spellcasting or Conjuring), you would roll 3 + your skill rank, and whenever you would have to make a dice roll using your Adept skills, you would roll 2 + your skill rank (or whatever). You would also have only the 2 Adept points you reserved for buying your Adept powers. If you earn a new Magic point with karma, you'll have to decide whether to add the point to your Magician pool or your Adept pool. Does that make sense? |
Aye, but what is the maximum force of that spell that is being cast? It is magic attribute x 2, so is that the 3 points for magic attribute or is it the total? For rolling the dice I know that it would be 3, though. =)
| QUOTE (Samothrake) |
| I read that line in a totally different way. I see it as explaining that an Adept doesn’t have the same skill as a mage because they haven’t devoted as much of their time and devotion to magic spells. It’s the same as saying “Lebron James cannot play basketball with the same skill as Michael Jordan.” Yes, there is a game rule tied to it, but that particular line in the rules is not itself a rule. Understand? |
Haha, yeah, I got it. The book is just throwing me for a loop here. So skill isn't literate(not "skill" game term) but the rest, does it mean maximum force is magic x 2 or magic attribute(minux phy ad power points) x 2?
So what's at issue is what it means to say "use with Magic-based skills."
Yes, clearly points allocated to the magician side of things cap how many dice you roll for spellcasting, summoning, etc. But do they cap the Magic you use for determining whether drain is stun or physical, and what your maximum force cap is? I had thought yes, but on a narrow reading the force caps are not necessarly "used" with a Magic-based skill, at least not in the direct sense involving dice rolling. Given the other part he quotes...
Yes, clearly points allocated to the magician side of things cap how many dice you roll for spellcasting, summoning, etc. But do they cap the Magic you use for determining whether drain is stun or physical, and what your maximum force cap is? I had thought yes, but on a narrow reading the force caps are not necessarly "used" with a Magic-based skill, at least not in the direct sense involving dice rolling. Given the other part he quotes...
| QUOTE |
| For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character’s full Magic attribute is used. Such a character will not have as many adept powers as most other adepts, nor will they be able to cast spells with the same skill as true magicians. |
...I have to think your total Magic (including that part spent on adept abilities) caps spells/spirits and determines drain, just as it does for adept abilities. So mystic adepts cast spells poorly, but not weakly. That's contrary to the assumptions I and others made in the thread he cites, but makes mystic adepts much more useful.
| QUOTE (Slithery D) |
| I have to think your total Magic (including that part spent on adept abilities) caps spells/spirits and determines drain, just as it does for adept abilities. So mystic adepts cast spells poorly, but not weakly. That's contrary to the assumptions I and others made in the thread he cites, but makes mystic adepts much more useful. |
First of all, much obliged.
Secondly, the rest of my question is, does it make mystic adepts too much more useful?
Since the rules are kinda one way or the other...
To sum up:
So we know Mystic Adepts get (Magic - Power Points) + Skill, when conjuring and spellcasting.
We think that they have a force of Magic x 2, or (Magic - Power Points) x 2.
The issue is that a MA has highly (maybe overly) limited magical ability is we use (Magic - Power Points) x 2 as a force cap, but they may be too powerful if we use Magic x 2 for the cap.
My 0.02
:
I'm inclined to think that they are not too powerful with Magic x 2 for force cap. Consider that MAs entirely give up the ability to astrally project, and essentially have to pay a die on all spellcasting tests if you take a power point for astral perception.
Overall, a mystic adept sacrifices a lot by sacrificing astral projection just to receive PhysAd powers, I'm inclined to think that it is not too powerful to allow a MA to cast total Magic x 2 for maximum force and total Magic for the overcasting limit. The fact that they are giving up a hairy chunk of dice on their Magic related tests, and astral projection is penalty enough for balance.
And on top of that I believe the rules imply that it is in fact Total Magic x 2, not (Magic - Power Points) x2.
So we know Mystic Adepts get (Magic - Power Points) + Skill, when conjuring and spellcasting.
We think that they have a force of Magic x 2, or (Magic - Power Points) x 2.
The issue is that a MA has highly (maybe overly) limited magical ability is we use (Magic - Power Points) x 2 as a force cap, but they may be too powerful if we use Magic x 2 for the cap.
My 0.02
:I'm inclined to think that they are not too powerful with Magic x 2 for force cap. Consider that MAs entirely give up the ability to astrally project, and essentially have to pay a die on all spellcasting tests if you take a power point for astral perception.
Overall, a mystic adept sacrifices a lot by sacrificing astral projection just to receive PhysAd powers, I'm inclined to think that it is not too powerful to allow a MA to cast total Magic x 2 for maximum force and total Magic for the overcasting limit. The fact that they are giving up a hairy chunk of dice on their Magic related tests, and astral projection is penalty enough for balance.
And on top of that I believe the rules imply that it is in fact Total Magic x 2, not (Magic - Power Points) x2.
When I played in the SR Tourney, with, I believe a FanPro writer on hand, the ruling was that the Mystic Adept is treated as a Magician with a Magic rating equal to Mystic Adept Rating - Physad power points (and thus a Mystic Adept with 1 point of Mageness could overcast to a maximum of Force 2).
This was much clearer in SR3 when the Mystic Adept bought a Magic power which was clearly defined.
This was much clearer in SR3 when the Mystic Adept bought a Magic power which was clearly defined.
Well I'm not sure I'm going to take much from that tourney as canon given the threads I've seen here.
I do think however that the sample on p 187 makes it clear.
I do think however that the sample on p 187 makes it clear.
| QUOTE ("Core Rulebook p187") |
| When using her Magic-linked dice pools, such as Spellcasting or Summoning, she will be able to allocate 3 dice for Magic (since the otehr is tied up in her adept powers). For all other uses, her Magic attribute counts at its full value of 4. |
Seems like that's pretty clear.
| QUOTE (Demerzel) | ||
I do think however that the sample on p 187 makes it clear.
Seems like that's pretty clear. |
But then again, according to this(from around that same area, I believe slightly above):
| QUOTE |
| "Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based skills." |
It doesn't specify only for rolls and tests, and when using sorcery is when you determine force(and here is where the limit to maximum force is applied). Sorcery isn't just a die roll, it's the whole shebang.
And the example could go either way, "When using her Magic-linked dice pools, such as Spellcasting or Summoning, she will be able to allocate 3 dice for Magic" does that mean, for her spellcasting, her Magic attribute is effectively 3, because that would then limit maximum force, based on the example.
"For all other uses" wouldn't apply because Choosing a force is step 2 in Spellcasting, which is the Sorcery spell(p.173 in my book) and that's where the limit is.
See the fun fun confusion? So the real question ends up being, is the character too powerful if his dice are reduced a couple and is he too limited if his force is limited so(remember, a lot of spells work on # of successes, which is limited by force).
At this point, a GM could rule either way. I would go Magic x 2, myself. I mean, if you're not limiting the level of powers on the adept side (a mystic adept with magic: 6 and only 3 points set aside for adept points could still get mystic armor: 6), then why limit the magic side? They already get hobbled by losing dice.
someone emailed this question in a while back. i think it was rob that answered, and the answer was that you were limited to a force of (magic - power points) * 2
i'll see if i can dig up the old thread for you.
[edit] here you go:
Original thread
Other thread where it's quoted
[/edit]
i'll see if i can dig up the old thread for you.
[edit] here you go:
Original thread
Other thread where it's quoted
[/edit]
| QUOTE (Demerzel) |
| Well I'm not sure I'm going to take much from that tourney as canon given the threads I've seen here. |
Well if the SR Tournament's "Grendel", is the same Dan Grendel listed under the Design Team on the SR4 Table of Contents, it should be fairly canon.
Well, then if that is the case then this needs to be added to an eratta, because the example states, "When using magic linked dice-pools, [ . . . ] all other uses [ . . . ]".
Magic for the overcasting and maximum force is not a dice-pool, so it falls into the "all other uses" clause.
What does use with a skill mean? When do you ever use an attribute with a skill? Only really when you add skill to attribute to determine a dice pool. Again consistant with the example, it only fails to be clear if you choose to read into it something that is not there.
When canon states it affects dice-pools and everything else uses full magic, then someone got e-mailed something that perfectly contradicts the rules written in the book, shouldn't that be erattad? That e-mail occured nearly a year ago, and it never made it into an eratta.
Magic for the overcasting and maximum force is not a dice-pool, so it falls into the "all other uses" clause.
What does use with a skill mean? When do you ever use an attribute with a skill? Only really when you add skill to attribute to determine a dice pool. Again consistant with the example, it only fails to be clear if you choose to read into it something that is not there.
When canon states it affects dice-pools and everything else uses full magic, then someone got e-mailed something that perfectly contradicts the rules written in the book, shouldn't that be erattad? That e-mail occured nearly a year ago, and it never made it into an eratta.
if you don't like it and don't want to do it the way it is supposed to be done, that's fine. i don't personally care. change it for your game.
however, now that you've gotten your answer about how it's supposed to work, all that remains is to either accept that answer, or reject it.
i'm pretty sure it's actually even in writing in the BBB that the gaming police are not going to bang down your door and demand that you play by official rules, so you don't need to convince the gaming community as a whole.
and seriously, if you're only going to accept one answer, then why did you bother asking the question?
however, now that you've gotten your answer about how it's supposed to work, all that remains is to either accept that answer, or reject it.
i'm pretty sure it's actually even in writing in the BBB that the gaming police are not going to bang down your door and demand that you play by official rules, so you don't need to convince the gaming community as a whole.
and seriously, if you're only going to accept one answer, then why did you bother asking the question?
Thanks for the links, very informative.
Now I'm just wondering which way would be best in this situation, as it drastically effects power of the character, and I don't want him to be too limited and don't want him to be too powerful.
The question was asked because I wanted to see if there was some kind of decent consensus or psuedo-official statement floating around somewhere, as well as finding out how it limited a character either way(too powerful or too weak). I don't mean to be accepting only a single answer, just playing devil's advocate somehwat(and don't mean to start anything!) but the example contradicts the rules as were stated above. =(
Edited for posterity.
Now I'm just wondering which way would be best in this situation, as it drastically effects power of the character, and I don't want him to be too limited and don't want him to be too powerful.
The question was asked because I wanted to see if there was some kind of decent consensus or psuedo-official statement floating around somewhere, as well as finding out how it limited a character either way(too powerful or too weak). I don't mean to be accepting only a single answer, just playing devil's advocate somehwat(and don't mean to start anything!) but the example contradicts the rules as were stated above. =(
Edited for posterity.
Bahwi, don't take Jaid's statement personally. He's probably directed that at me, he must have thought I was the original poster asking the question.
Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to make it sound like I was taking it personally(I wasn't, and edited it trying to make it sound that way as well). This topic gets heated up. I'm gonna playtest with each each way and see how powerful it comes out to be(too or not enough) and use that to base my decision on, because without an actual eratta it could be read both ways. And I am leaning to, at least for now, letting him play with full magic for determining force.
In your playtesting it will matter a lot how you play up astral space, and how important it is in your campaign. It is afterall the primary weekness of the Mystic Adept, and is of enhanced importance in SR4 now that spells cast in astral space are no longer always physical drain.
Yeah, definately. Something I need to think about. The character he's playing is a kind of Anti-Magic Mystic Adept, his only spell is Mana Static, and he only has 1 point put into it(thereby limiting the number of successes not necessarily based on force) and it's a good concept. I don't remember if he took any Astral powers or not. It's a good concept and I like it, but how far is it from "Anti-magic" to "I cast toxic wave..." heh. But I am leaning towards letting max force be total magix(x2 for physical).
But so far Astral Space hasn't really come up in my game, perhaps I need to make it more so.
But so far Astral Space hasn't really come up in my game, perhaps I need to make it more so.
Perhaps in this case it would be better to just use the old "knack" power. Of course, you'd be entering house-rule territory. Instead of making them a mystic adept, just make them a regular adept with a special adept power that costs 1 point and allows him to cast mana static at his magic rating.
It avoids the toxic wave problem.
It avoids the toxic wave problem.
I got the impression from his other trheads that he is also interested in counterspelling.
Yeah, he's doing counterspelling IIRC on the character sheet. I was thinking that though.
An antimagic adept could make an interesting tradition. They get a mana static knack, and counterspelling. They pay some extra BP for it. I'm thinking house-rules and antimagic adept tradition might be the best way to handle it, but some groups don't like house-rules that much and would prefer to stay within the book.
Well, this is going way off topic, but the Mystic Adept is probably a good enough way to handle an anti-magic adept. Without really even house rules, you just need an appropriate mentor spirit. A sort of anti-magic mentor spirit. Modifiers like +2 die to any couterspelling or banishing tests, -2 die to any spellcasting or summoning tests. You'd still be able to cast your mana static, albeit with a penalty, but you could simply call it playing out of mentor spirit type to start throwing toxic waves.
Good call. Probably a more elegant solution.
Mountain.
+2 to counterspelling, +2 to earth spirits, you can't change your mind.
That's why my counterspell mystic adept gunbunny has.
+2 to counterspelling, +2 to earth spirits, you can't change your mind.
That's why my counterspell mystic adept gunbunny has.
Alternatively, you could write it up as an Aspected Magacian variant. -4 dice pool on tests other than Counterspelling, Banishing, Astral Combat (not normally applicable to a Mystic Adept) and Assening. Probably worth a +10 BP negative quality using the other Street Magic Aspects as a judge ... though I'd lean towards +5 BP.
I'd say it's a -5 for mystic adepts, and -10 for magicians.
That isn't really fitting with the way they work in Street Magic. A Mystic Adept aspected towards Enchanting costs 0 net points (+10-10), but remember that ehy can also only spend 25 more points on positive qualities and 25 more on negative.
Looking at it again, I'd call it a 5 BP negative quality.
Looking at it again, I'd call it a 5 BP negative quality.
Ok I am the aforementioned character. Thought I would post the Actual build here for all to see how the points were spent. I am of course hoping for an official ruling and wish they had erratted this a long time ago.
There seems to be this current running under all these debates that the MA is either too gimped or too powerful. What happened to balanced? Take the following list as you will (Hopefully I don't miss anything):
-Being a mystic adept means paying 5 more BP's to have access to casting spells with no access to the astral realm(Unless you decide to spend an adept point to be able to percieve that realm)
-You have NO hope of being as effective as a full mage at casting spells as you dont get the dice they do for casting. Mages with magic rating 6 get 6 dice for that attribute where as MA's get only as many dice as they allocated for magic use. This means MA's will not cast the spell as well. In my characters case he gets 7 dice total(instead of 12 for the same cost skill points wise) for casting the spell (Skill at 4 +2 manipulation spells specializtion +1 since "Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with magic based skills.")
-You are paying more BP's for less points to spend in adept abilities
So far no argument from either side. The point of contention is with spell force (obviously this needs an errata) Im obviously in the camp that sides with the full magic attribute being the limiting factor in spell force. I could quote the book however we have all read it. I think when you take the whole mystic adept section its very clear but that is obviously my opinion. Anyway here is the build
David Rehcsif aka Dead Zone
RACE: Dwarf (25 BP)
ATTRIBUTES (195 BP)
Body: 4
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 4
Edge: 2
Magic: 6 (5 to adept 1 to magic skills)
Essence: 6
Initiative: 6
Initiative Passes: 1
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
ACTIVE SKILLS (158 BP)
Firearms Group:Level 3 (30)
-Automatics
-Longarms
-Pistols
Stealth Group:Level 3 (30)
-Disguise
-Infiltration
-Palming
-Shadowing
Banishing Skill: Level 4 (16)
Counterspelling Skill: Level 7 (Combat Spell Specialization) (34)
Perception Skill:Level 2 (Visual Specialization) (10)
Hardware Skill: Level 2 (Maglocks Specialization) (10)
Spellcasting Skill:Level 4 (Manipulation Specialization) (18)
Dodge Skill:Level 2 (Ranged Specialization) (10)
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS (15 FREE BP)
North American Arms Dealers: Level 3
Seattle Safehouses: Level 3
Jewelry Appraisal: Level 4
Board Games: Level 2
LANGUAGES SKILLS
English: N (Lingo:Cityspeak)
Latin: 2
QUALITIES (0 BP)
Aptitude:CounterSpelling(10)
Mystic Adept (10)
Murky Link (10)
Mentor Spirit (Mountain) (5)
Bad Luck (+20)
Talisman Geas (Gold mountain with siler inlay top pendant worn on steel chain around neck) (+10)
SINner (+5)
ADEPT POWERS (5 POINTS)
Spell Resistance Level 4 (2)
Cloak Level 6(1.5)
Magic Sence(.5)
Piercing Senses Level 4(1)
SPELLS (3 BP)
Mana Static
CONTACTS (4BP)
Fixer 2/2
RESOURCES (15 BP for 75,000 )
There seems to be this current running under all these debates that the MA is either too gimped or too powerful. What happened to balanced? Take the following list as you will (Hopefully I don't miss anything):
-Being a mystic adept means paying 5 more BP's to have access to casting spells with no access to the astral realm(Unless you decide to spend an adept point to be able to percieve that realm)
-You have NO hope of being as effective as a full mage at casting spells as you dont get the dice they do for casting. Mages with magic rating 6 get 6 dice for that attribute where as MA's get only as many dice as they allocated for magic use. This means MA's will not cast the spell as well. In my characters case he gets 7 dice total(instead of 12 for the same cost skill points wise) for casting the spell (Skill at 4 +2 manipulation spells specializtion +1 since "Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with magic based skills.")
-You are paying more BP's for less points to spend in adept abilities
So far no argument from either side. The point of contention is with spell force (obviously this needs an errata) Im obviously in the camp that sides with the full magic attribute being the limiting factor in spell force. I could quote the book however we have all read it. I think when you take the whole mystic adept section its very clear but that is obviously my opinion. Anyway here is the build
David Rehcsif aka Dead Zone
RACE: Dwarf (25 BP)
ATTRIBUTES (195 BP)
Body: 4
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 4
Edge: 2
Magic: 6 (5 to adept 1 to magic skills)
Essence: 6
Initiative: 6
Initiative Passes: 1
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
ACTIVE SKILLS (158 BP)
Firearms Group:Level 3 (30)
-Automatics
-Longarms
-Pistols
Stealth Group:Level 3 (30)
-Disguise
-Infiltration
-Palming
-Shadowing
Banishing Skill: Level 4 (16)
Counterspelling Skill: Level 7 (Combat Spell Specialization) (34)
Perception Skill:Level 2 (Visual Specialization) (10)
Hardware Skill: Level 2 (Maglocks Specialization) (10)
Spellcasting Skill:Level 4 (Manipulation Specialization) (18)
Dodge Skill:Level 2 (Ranged Specialization) (10)
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS (15 FREE BP)
North American Arms Dealers: Level 3
Seattle Safehouses: Level 3
Jewelry Appraisal: Level 4
Board Games: Level 2
LANGUAGES SKILLS
English: N (Lingo:Cityspeak)
Latin: 2
QUALITIES (0 BP)
Aptitude:CounterSpelling(10)
Mystic Adept (10)
Murky Link (10)
Mentor Spirit (Mountain) (5)
Bad Luck (+20)
Talisman Geas (Gold mountain with siler inlay top pendant worn on steel chain around neck) (+10)
SINner (+5)
ADEPT POWERS (5 POINTS)
Spell Resistance Level 4 (2)
Cloak Level 6(1.5)
Magic Sence(.5)
Piercing Senses Level 4(1)
SPELLS (3 BP)
Mana Static
CONTACTS (4BP)
Fixer 2/2
RESOURCES (15 BP for 75,000
)
You're actually -10 on Qualities, based on this.
What Adept powers are you taking? I'm always a huge fan of taking synaptic boosters 2, and giving up one point of Adept powers.
It's -1 essence, and 32 bp, so it's a big cost, but....
What Adept powers are you taking? I'm always a huge fan of taking synaptic boosters 2, and giving up one point of Adept powers.
It's -1 essence, and 32 bp, so it's a big cost, but....
You're short changing yourselfo n knowledge skills.
It's not (Int + Log) x 3 Build Points, it's (Int + Log) * 3 Skill Points.
It's not (Int + Log) x 3 Build Points, it's (Int + Log) * 3 Skill Points.
Ah whoops sorry left Aptitude out and thanks for the correction on the Knowledge skills. I also added in what adept powers he chose.
Edit: Nevermind.
SINner is an adept power?
You haven't seen all the recent references to Pornomancer Adepts, have you? 
Personally, being a huge fan of init passes, I'd drop a point of spell resistance and 2 points of cloak (or one cloak, one pierce) and find a way to get Rank 2 Synaptic Boosters. That's a single point of essence (read it like a point of magic) to get 2 extra passes and +2 reaction. There's very little downside to that.
Personally, being a huge fan of init passes, I'd drop a point of spell resistance and 2 points of cloak (or one cloak, one pierce) and find a way to get Rank 2 Synaptic Boosters. That's a single point of essence (read it like a point of magic) to get 2 extra passes and +2 reaction. There's very little downside to that.
Very little downside except that it's not what his character concept is about., and the cost in cash makes it a huge BP cost, and that the lost ability to initiate increase his magic and actually get he adept speed power... Oh never mind there's a ton of downsides.
And what about spells? Are you starting with none, or forgot to list them?
And what about spells? Are you starting with none, or forgot to list them?
25 (Dwarf) + 195 (Attributes) + 158 (Skills) = 378, leaves 22 points? Was this 11 spells? Or spells + Contacts?
Lost ability to initiate?
You can initiate, but now you can't use that ability to enhance your reaction/init.
| QUOTE (Demerzel) |
| You can initiate, but now you can't use that ability to enhance your reaction/init. |
oh darn, and i'm sure he was just desperately waiting for the chance to blow the 5 points of magic it would take to get 3 IPs, it's such a horrible loss that he instead might pay 1 point of magic (via essence loss) and be forever trapped with only 2 bonus IPs...
That's pretty much my argument, yeah.
You can spend 1 "magic' via essence loss, for 2 ips. Or you can spent 3 adept points on it.
You do lose the 4 ip option, but really, 4 ips are only useful if you're a dedicated combatant. The difference between 1 and 3 is far more than the difference between 3 and 4.
The char does look good.
If I were building it, I'd drop counterspelling to 6, rather than 7 (saving 14 bp), and pick a weapon - say pistols. Get pistols 3, that's 18 bp.
18 + 14. Hmmm. 18 +14. 32. What can one do with 32 bps....
Ah! Synaptic Boost 2!
I know that you aren't focused on combat, but really, it's going to hit you. Having 6 dice for your combat skill, you could really use 3 shots a round, to equalize things.
If you can find 2 more points, you could also spec in Semi-Automatics. Now you're up to 8 dice to roll when shooting, plus your pistol.
You can spend 1 "magic' via essence loss, for 2 ips. Or you can spent 3 adept points on it.
You do lose the 4 ip option, but really, 4 ips are only useful if you're a dedicated combatant. The difference between 1 and 3 is far more than the difference between 3 and 4.
The char does look good.
If I were building it, I'd drop counterspelling to 6, rather than 7 (saving 14 bp), and pick a weapon - say pistols. Get pistols 3, that's 18 bp.
18 + 14. Hmmm. 18 +14. 32. What can one do with 32 bps....
Ah! Synaptic Boost 2!
I know that you aren't focused on combat, but really, it's going to hit you. Having 6 dice for your combat skill, you could really use 3 shots a round, to equalize things.
If you can find 2 more points, you could also spec in Semi-Automatics. Now you're up to 8 dice to roll when shooting, plus your pistol.
OK editted once more and added in the things I left off earlier that will show where the missing 22 points were spent. (Didn't think anyone would care) His background hasn't leant itself to him being particularly quick in a fight or otherwise and his focus is antimagic. Here is his background;
David spent his early years the typical kid of wage slave parents working for a mid range corp that was doing ok but wasn't steller enough to be noticed by any of the AAA mega's. Davids dad did better than most since he was a magic user. This brought extra perks. Everything seemed to be going well until Davids dad just didn't come home one night. After searching for a week just as suddenly and mysteriously as he disappeared Davids dad reappeared. Except he was a vary changed man. The corp they were with kicked them out of the housing and fired his father for no apparent reason. It wasn't until after his mom left that David discovered his father could no longer cast magic. That he had in fact 'burnt out' as he called it. Life became very hard then but David still had his father who did everything he could to provide for his son. He spent countless hours teaching his son the motions and theories behind magic and how to deal with it as a mundane. They took a trip one year when David was 14 out into NAN territory. How his father could afford the passes needed David didn't know, nor did he care. It ended up being the trip that changed his life. The idea had been for his father to teach him about some of the paranimals that frequented the region and how to avoid them. They had a guide and David was certain the guide was also there to protect them should they have any problems. Late one night though a very normal critter had found its way into Davids sleeping bag and when David climbed in he got stung by a scorpion. It was this event and the hallucinations that the poison induced fever brought that introduced David to what became his mentor in the Spirit world.
Known to David only as Brock this Spirit seemed to him to look like it was made of rock and in fact was shaped like a mountain. It wasn't until a few weeks later that David saw Brock again, this time in a dream, that he began to realize that Brock might be real and not just a delusion. Over the course of the next few years Brock began teaching David that he in fact had magical access but not like his father. Through a combination of his fathers and Brocks teachings David found his path and started down a road that his father had traveled until he had lost his abilities. It was just after his 21'st birthday that the final major event to date in Davids life came about that pushed him off the path his father had him on and forever into the shadows.
It was late one night and David had been out with his friends for one last fling before going off to a megacorps training facility to be tested for possible employment/training with that corp. He got home and found the door ajar and got that tingling sensation Brock had taught him was his ability to sense magic in the area. Rushing into the room he came in just in time to see his father fall to some sort of spell cast by a tall elf who could be nothing other than a mage. The mage was very fast and before David had realized it had cast the same spell at him. Reacting instinctively David countered the spell. He then took the moment of confusion that caused the elf to get to his fathers gun and shoot him. Things went from bad to worse as the elf happened to have a spirit on hand and ordered it to attack. David did the first thing that came to mind and that was to flood the area with static. His father had taught him this spell and David liked it as it meant that casting spells would be hard and spirits became much weaker. David in his adrenaline hyped state managed to cast it so well that the spirit simply vanished. The elf died and so did Davids father. Davids fathers last words were a warning to not trust the corps and a name of a fixer who would help him disappear.
Somewhat rough but anyway now you have an idea of what this character is about.
David spent his early years the typical kid of wage slave parents working for a mid range corp that was doing ok but wasn't steller enough to be noticed by any of the AAA mega's. Davids dad did better than most since he was a magic user. This brought extra perks. Everything seemed to be going well until Davids dad just didn't come home one night. After searching for a week just as suddenly and mysteriously as he disappeared Davids dad reappeared. Except he was a vary changed man. The corp they were with kicked them out of the housing and fired his father for no apparent reason. It wasn't until after his mom left that David discovered his father could no longer cast magic. That he had in fact 'burnt out' as he called it. Life became very hard then but David still had his father who did everything he could to provide for his son. He spent countless hours teaching his son the motions and theories behind magic and how to deal with it as a mundane. They took a trip one year when David was 14 out into NAN territory. How his father could afford the passes needed David didn't know, nor did he care. It ended up being the trip that changed his life. The idea had been for his father to teach him about some of the paranimals that frequented the region and how to avoid them. They had a guide and David was certain the guide was also there to protect them should they have any problems. Late one night though a very normal critter had found its way into Davids sleeping bag and when David climbed in he got stung by a scorpion. It was this event and the hallucinations that the poison induced fever brought that introduced David to what became his mentor in the Spirit world.
Known to David only as Brock this Spirit seemed to him to look like it was made of rock and in fact was shaped like a mountain. It wasn't until a few weeks later that David saw Brock again, this time in a dream, that he began to realize that Brock might be real and not just a delusion. Over the course of the next few years Brock began teaching David that he in fact had magical access but not like his father. Through a combination of his fathers and Brocks teachings David found his path and started down a road that his father had traveled until he had lost his abilities. It was just after his 21'st birthday that the final major event to date in Davids life came about that pushed him off the path his father had him on and forever into the shadows.
It was late one night and David had been out with his friends for one last fling before going off to a megacorps training facility to be tested for possible employment/training with that corp. He got home and found the door ajar and got that tingling sensation Brock had taught him was his ability to sense magic in the area. Rushing into the room he came in just in time to see his father fall to some sort of spell cast by a tall elf who could be nothing other than a mage. The mage was very fast and before David had realized it had cast the same spell at him. Reacting instinctively David countered the spell. He then took the moment of confusion that caused the elf to get to his fathers gun and shoot him. Things went from bad to worse as the elf happened to have a spirit on hand and ordered it to attack. David did the first thing that came to mind and that was to flood the area with static. His father had taught him this spell and David liked it as it meant that casting spells would be hard and spirits became much weaker. David in his adrenaline hyped state managed to cast it so well that the spirit simply vanished. The elf died and so did Davids father. Davids fathers last words were a warning to not trust the corps and a name of a fixer who would help him disappear.
Somewhat rough but anyway now you have an idea of what this character is about.
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