 Power site exploit. |
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 Aug 31 2006, 02:21 PM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
Step one: aspect a power site.
Step two: pay a mage of another tradition to summon a powerful spirit and move it into the power site, fucking up its force. Step three: Sustain Increase Reflexes, banish the spirit on your second IP, and bind it. Step four: Profit from 5 services from a force 9 spirit. Repeat as necessary. Does this work? |
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Aug 31 2006, 02:31 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
As a GM just have the power site drop the spirits "Current Effective" force, cause when it leaves the power site it will go back up to full, correct? While in the power site, the spirit will only be able to cast and use skills at its "Current Effective" Force, but once it leaves, it goes back to normal.
When the player tries to banish it, the Spirit will use it's "True Summoned" force, or what level it was summoned at, to resist. Even through the F9 spirit has had its effectiveness dropped to a lower level, its still a F9 spirit and that is what the mage has to banish. Doing that will prevent any exploit while still making sense. |
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Aug 31 2006, 02:43 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
Actually the power site works exactly has emo samurai says it does. In the rules there is no such thing as a Current Effective Force. The spirit would be weakened due to the effects of the aspected power site. If you use the rules as written then it works exactly as emo samurai says. Konsaki, your house rule doesn't make sense according to how a power site works. If the spirit is weakened by the aspected power site, it only makes sense it wouldn't have full strength when being banished. Even though it is an F9 spirit it is still weakened. Your solution sounds more like arbitrary GM fiat than anything else.
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Aug 31 2006, 02:50 PM
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#4
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Better solution - make the player re-roll the binding test as soon as the spirit leaves the aspected area. After all, the spirit has effectively just increased its force significantly - it should have a new chance to break free. Don't tell the player that this is what will happen. It makes good fluff sense and isn't contradicted by rules (written or intent). Cheeky little players. |
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Aug 31 2006, 03:05 PM
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#5
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Nobody asked me, but this is Dumpshock, so you get to hear my opinion.
If I was emo's GM, I'd congratulate him for extreme cleverness. Then I would reward him by pointing out that the technique is ridiculously easy for the Megacorps to accomplish, far more so than your average shadowrunner. |
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Aug 31 2006, 03:13 PM
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#6
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
The Megacorps are just bigger badder runners.
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Aug 31 2006, 03:35 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 9-December 03 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 5,889 |
Sounds okay to me. If you can manage to lure the spirit into your Power Site, you'll have a big advantage in the binding. This act will likely piss the spirits off at both the binder and the original summoner, but if you're pulling this stunt, you probably don't care. In my games, coercion like this tends to result in spirits that are hard to control -- they will only do exactly what you order them to, and they'll look for ways to follow the letter of your orders and still screw you over. On the other hand, if you're binding spirits of your tradition, and using them in ways that they approve of, they tend to cooperate with their summoners, sometimes even helping out of their own accord. |
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Aug 31 2006, 04:04 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I agree with Mal-2. Basically banishing is probably at best a painful experience to a spirit. Eventually you'll count as a spirit abuser and spirits will start misbehaving, and doing things like throwing their edge against you on your own normal summonings, as per the section in the core rulebook about angering spirits.
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Aug 31 2006, 06:22 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Awww... I'll say that we wait until sundown, or the summoner dismisses the spirit and I latch onto the end of it.
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Aug 31 2006, 06:34 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Asking a spirit to enter a powersite aspected against it may also be a "painful" experience. So the original summoner may take the evil conjurer penalties as well.
Edit: typo |
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Aug 31 2006, 07:22 PM
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#11
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Honestly, the big problem here seems to be that you need to occupy a Power Site for several hours while you perform a powerful binding ritual. It totally works, but that very first limitation is really quite severe. There really aren't a whole lot of power sites that you can occupy indefinitely without interruption.
Especially if you're a lowly shadowrunner. But yes, if you can hold on to a power site aspected to your tradition for most of a day uninterrupted, and you have the assistance of a conjurer from another tradition, and you either have friends who are capable of Banishing or you have extra IPs, then you can use all of this together to bind more powerful spirits than you would normally be capable of. But of course, these spirits are still associated with another tradition from you, and it's already been established that you have a power site. In many ways you might be better off just summoning a spirit that's weaker and have it sit in your power site while using its powers. You end up getting the same total force for sustained powers and you can do it all on your own and do the binding rituals in your garage and so on and so on. It's a nice trick, and if for some reason you were in a position to use it, I'd let you do it no problem. -Frank |
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Aug 31 2006, 07:29 PM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Really? I've found that unaspected domain substract from magic/force, but aspected domains give only dicepool modifiers:
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Aug 31 2006, 07:31 PM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
This would definitely be one way to get the "evil summoner" problems, but yeah, it works.
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Aug 31 2006, 07:44 PM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Spirits get more force while they're in power sites?
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Aug 31 2006, 07:51 PM
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#15
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No. Toxic spirit used to add the BGC of the toxic domain to their force in SR3... but I can't find such rules in SR4. |
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Sep 1 2006, 12:09 AM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Wait, I see what Frank was saying. Never mind.
But dude, invoking other peoples' spirits. Do spirits like to be invoked? |
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