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emo samurai
Step one: aspect a power site.

Step two: pay a mage of another tradition to summon a powerful spirit and move it into the power site, fucking up its force.

Step three: Sustain Increase Reflexes, banish the spirit on your second IP, and bind it.

Step four: Profit from 5 services from a force 9 spirit. Repeat as necessary.

Does this work?
Konsaki
As a GM just have the power site drop the spirits "Current Effective" force, cause when it leaves the power site it will go back up to full, correct? While in the power site, the spirit will only be able to cast and use skills at its "Current Effective" Force, but once it leaves, it goes back to normal.
When the player tries to banish it, the Spirit will use it's "True Summoned" force, or what level it was summoned at, to resist. Even through the F9 spirit has had its effectiveness dropped to a lower level, its still a F9 spirit and that is what the mage has to banish.

Doing that will prevent any exploit while still making sense.

Eleazar
Actually the power site works exactly has emo samurai says it does. In the rules there is no such thing as a Current Effective Force. The spirit would be weakened due to the effects of the aspected power site. If you use the rules as written then it works exactly as emo samurai says. Konsaki, your house rule doesn't make sense according to how a power site works. If the spirit is weakened by the aspected power site, it only makes sense it wouldn't have full strength when being banished. Even though it is an F9 spirit it is still weakened. Your solution sounds more like arbitrary GM fiat than anything else.
knasser
QUOTE (Konsaki)
As a GM just have the power site drop the spirits "Current Effective" force, cause when it leaves the power site it will go back up to full, correct? While in the power site, the spirit will only be able to cast and use skills at its "Current Effective" Force, but once it leaves, it goes back to normal.
When the player tries to banish it, the Spirit will use it's "True Summoned" force, or what level it was summoned at, to resist. Even through the F9 spirit has had its effectiveness dropped to a lower level, its still a F9 spirit and that is what the mage has to banish.

Doing that will prevent any exploit while still making sense.


Better solution - make the player re-roll the binding test as soon as the spirit leaves the aspected area. After all, the spirit has effectively just increased its force significantly - it should have a new chance to break free. Don't tell the player that this is what will happen. It makes good fluff sense and isn't contradicted by rules (written or intent).

Cheeky little players.
Aaron
Nobody asked me, but this is Dumpshock, so you get to hear my opinion.

If I was emo's GM, I'd congratulate him for extreme cleverness. Then I would reward him by pointing out that the technique is ridiculously easy for the Megacorps to accomplish, far more so than your average shadowrunner.
DireRadiant
The Megacorps are just bigger badder runners.
Mal-2
QUOTE (emo samurai)
Does this work?

Sounds okay to me. If you can manage to lure the spirit into your Power Site, you'll have a big advantage in the binding. This act will likely piss the spirits off at both the binder and the original summoner, but if you're pulling this stunt, you probably don't care.

In my games, coercion like this tends to result in spirits that are hard to control -- they will only do exactly what you order them to, and they'll look for ways to follow the letter of your orders and still screw you over. On the other hand, if you're binding spirits of your tradition, and using them in ways that they approve of, they tend to cooperate with their summoners, sometimes even helping out of their own accord.
Demerzel
I agree with Mal-2. Basically banishing is probably at best a painful experience to a spirit. Eventually you'll count as a spirit abuser and spirits will start misbehaving, and doing things like throwing their edge against you on your own normal summonings, as per the section in the core rulebook about angering spirits.
emo samurai
Awww... I'll say that we wait until sundown, or the summoner dismisses the spirit and I latch onto the end of it.
Demerzel
Asking a spirit to enter a powersite aspected against it may also be a "painful" experience. So the original summoner may take the evil conjurer penalties as well.

Edit: typo
FrankTrollman
Honestly, the big problem here seems to be that you need to occupy a Power Site for several hours while you perform a powerful binding ritual. It totally works, but that very first limitation is really quite severe. There really aren't a whole lot of power sites that you can occupy indefinitely without interruption.

Especially if you're a lowly shadowrunner.


But yes, if you can hold on to a power site aspected to your tradition for most of a day uninterrupted, and you have the assistance of a conjurer from another tradition, and you either have friends who are capable of Banishing or you have extra IPs, then you can use all of this together to bind more powerful spirits than you would normally be capable of.

But of course, these spirits are still associated with another tradition from you, and it's already been established that you have a power site. In many ways you might be better off just summoning a spirit that's weaker and have it sit in your power site while using its powers. You end up getting the same total force for sustained powers and you can do it all on your own and do the binding rituals in your garage and so on and so on.

It's a nice trick, and if for some reason you were in a position to use it, I'd let you do it no problem.

-Frank
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
In many ways you might be better off just summoning a spirit that's weaker and have it sit in your power site while using its powers. You end up getting the same total force for sustained powers and you can do it all on your own and do the binding rituals in your garage and so on and so on.

Really? I've found that unaspected domain substract from magic/force, but aspected domains give only dicepool modifiers:
QUOTE (Street Magic @ p. 118, Aspect)
If the character works magic in the same paradigm (or one that is sufficiently similar) as the domainís aspect, it is advantageous. In this case, the background count does not reduce Magic as described above. Instead, the Awakened character receives a dice pool bonus for any Magical skill tests and Drain Resistance Tests performed in the domainís area of influence equal to the background count (up to a limit equal to his Magic attribute).
Shrike30
This would definitely be one way to get the "evil summoner" problems, but yeah, it works.
emo samurai
Spirits get more force while they're in power sites?
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (emo samurai)
Spirits get more force while they're in power sites?

No. Toxic spirit used to add the BGC of the toxic domain to their force in SR3... but I can't find such rules in SR4.
emo samurai
Wait, I see what Frank was saying. Never mind.

But dude, invoking other peoples' spirits. Do spirits like to be invoked?
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