 Personal augmentation: keeping up with the times |
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 Sep 5 2006, 04:56 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 3-October 05 Member No.: 7,802  |
And the only thing in the SR4 BBB that would allow the replacement of a limb, don't know if previous editions had bio replacements for limbs but for now it's only cyber.
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Sep 5 2006, 05:32 AM
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#27
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
You just have them grow a new one for you. The surgery is the same order of complexity and it should be about the same cost to have them grow one vs manufacturing one for you. |
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Sep 5 2006, 05:36 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
You do realize they would have to grow a whole BODY for you right? Just growing a limb isn't that easy. If you lose it more than 2 times in the growth period you have to wait for a whole new BODY to be grown so you can harvest that one arm. That would definitely increase the price a little.
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Sep 5 2006, 05:53 AM
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#29
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Not true. They can already grow some parts in a labratory setting. Why, some scientistsgrew an entire rabit penis from just a few cells not too long ago (obviously, they have their priorities straight). Also, there is some talk of of a meat-cloner in everyone's kitchen in the near foture. Surely, they will be able to grow a limb without any of the yucky stuff attached. |
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Sep 5 2006, 06:31 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
THANK GOD. I was afraid this whole soy thing might be the future. Meat-cloning machine for me, that's for sure. I don't care if it gives me cancer, I need meat dammit! |
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Sep 5 2006, 06:37 AM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 734 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,646 |
Yes, but why? I need a rooster more than I need a laser weapon ... |
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Sep 5 2006, 06:39 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
You never know. If she turns out to be an assassin trying to get you vulnerable, then your laser might come in handy. :D
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Sep 5 2006, 06:49 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 734 Joined: 30-August 05 Member No.: 7,646 |
That or for mentally scarring Sex Ed classes ...
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Sep 5 2006, 09:08 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
The recent German releases (München Noir and the extended Hamburg chapter of Runner Havens) talk about the newest addition to the range of underground scenes: Cyber-Fetishism - sophisticated, decorated, finely-tuned and very obvious cyberware as a fashion-statement. It's not about effective but about kewl (and sexy, for the Cyber-Fetishists)! An extension of todays body modifications like tattoos, piercings, brandings, etc.
(The leader of Germany's CF-scene, a former runner called "Alien Queen", is described as having Kid Stealth cyberlegs, artificial tail, black full-body dermal sheathing, artificial horns, fiberglas hair and generally looking like some kind of half-woman/half-monster chimera.) |
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Sep 5 2006, 10:06 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 6-September 02 Member No.: 3,234 |
Well, speaking in a very general sense, of course you're right. There will always be some functions that cyberware can do and bioware cannot, and vice-versa. e.g. cyber will always retain a function in interfacing with machines. But the issue was the cyberware that had been developed to augment or substitute natural functions of the body: that is the stuff which is getting more and more obsolete in the setting, and outperformed by bioware (with the exception of senseware, for now). As for the cyber-only functions, again, I see distributed symbiotic nano as potentially being able to replace it in most, if not all roles (even if this is just an educated guess, since nanoware, like geneware, is presently being left to Augmentation, which I'd dearly preferred to occupy the release slot Arsenal has; I can easily do without the immediate availability of another gazillion guns and vehicles, but I would have preferred to have complete 'ware rules very soon). Essentially, the point is that the classic "solid piece of metal" Steve Austin/Jamie Summers 'ware which is implanted by surgery to replace a whole chunk of healthy flesh is presently seeing its death-knell as a non-niche technology. As for the role of 'ware in the ahem, intimate sphere, this is an area that realistically, I expect to see a helluva lot of development: e.g. *a lot* of male customers would pay for bioware that would allow them to have erections and ejaculation on command and adjust dimensions at will. Just like a lot of female ones would pay to have menses and ovulation made a voluntary function, as well as retain fertility till very old age, being able to abort on command, and have painless and easy menses and delivery. There would be a more narrow but definite market for being able to switch gender and adjust facial features (just like adepts can do) at will. This latter technology eventually might even see coverage in game thanks to its infiltration applications. And this is just scratching the surface of the obvious applications, without delving in the more exotic ones, such as "improving" the surface or texture of the relevant organs, extra organs in the same or new places, or adding erectile tissue to other areas, such as lips or fingertips. If Viagra is a good example, this is an area where augmentation technology will be very popular. Almost all of it will be bioware and geneware, though. |
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Sep 5 2006, 10:28 AM
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#36
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Static nanoware that interfaces the body is cyberware. ;) |
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Sep 5 2006, 11:42 AM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 3-October 05 Member No.: 7,802 |
Thanks for pointing out the limb replacement thing. I can still see reasons to go cyber though.
If you lose a limb you could well be out of action for as long as it takes to grow a replacement bio limb, wyhereas an off the shelf cyber limb could be attached fairly fast. Not just in terms of runners, many people may not afford the loss of wages or psychological impact of walking around with only one arm for a period of time. And the intimate stuff is mostly just scary. Given the cosmetic surgery available today I dread to think what horrors await, and I'm in the category of not even being fond of women having boob jobs. |
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Sep 5 2006, 11:53 AM
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#38
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
One thing that they state in the BBB is that cyberlimbs are cheap and easily available which makes a statement that cloned limbs would be both harder to get (Higher availability, time to clone) and more expensive than cyberlimbs (that are almost as expensive as in SR3 percentage vice compared to the starting resources.)
So for that to be true a cloned limb would cost more (X2 perhaps) and have a higher availability than cyber (more than cyberskull perhaps) and take a certain amount of time. |
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Sep 5 2006, 09:18 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,072 |
This was a good topic. My 2 cents.
I forsee the obvious cyberlimb thing being what separates the Professional Runners from the Wannabees The more subtle Runners, your Infiltration types, combat hackers, etc., are only going to go for internal based cyber. Headware and such. To minimize detection and not raise ire, supplanting the rest with bio. My goal as a Runner would be to be as inconspicuous as possible. Heck I want people to underestimate me. Even though natural looking cyberlimbs are a better option, nothing beats having a bio-jacked up body to get past those detectors and cameras and surprise folks. Until they figure out how to start looking for Bio-enhancements of course (IIRC). Joe-Bum-Runnabe on the street is going to be stuck cybering up the old way. Either for cost or intimidation purposes. Johnsons are then going to judge you even more based off of appearance. I do think cyber is more for fashion in some cases too as some have already said. |
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Sep 5 2006, 09:25 PM
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#40
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The thing is, though... I would like cyber to have a niche, and not just the "it's cheaper, and can do some stuff bio can't" one.
SR has never embraced some of the cybernetic monstrosities that we could come up with. Cyborgs (all limbs, torso, head, ears, eyes, etc) are createable with alpha or beta grade ware, but the rules that exist governing the statistics for replacements hinder this being desireable to the point that it's not worth it. Cybertechnology gave us a variety of weapons mounts, but there almost seemed to be no point to them. The Kid Stealth legs are one of the few good, solid examples of a piece of replacement ware specifically designed to do something better than the thing it replaced. Hydraulic Jacks and Balance Tails are others. What if I want to take a cyborg, and not even bother trying to hide the fact that he's armored? Should I simply use the worn armor rules, despite the fact that the armor I'm talking about is literally bolted to his body? I'm fine with the idea that you can make bioware that outperforms cyberware. I just don't think that cyberware should only be the poor cousin to bio. There's some really outlandish things we could do if the game were to get inventive with ware, or step outside the "keep the chrome looking like the original body as much as you can" niche. It sounds like some of the German Runner Havens info talks about this, but more as a fetish than anything else. Hopefully, Augmentation takes a more serious approach to cyberware, and gives it a good, solid basis for it's continued existence. |
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Sep 5 2006, 09:48 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
totally agree.. the thing CP2020 did best was get creative with cyber.
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Sep 5 2006, 09:53 PM
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#42
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
I so hope for the impact of Dr. Halberstam had on the MCT Otomo project.
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Sep 6 2006, 03:58 PM
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#43
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Would you mind refreshing my memory on that?
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Sep 6 2006, 04:37 PM
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#44
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Dr. Halberstam was a consultant for the MCT Wetware project - which put biological brains into drones. (CD)
The MCT Otmo is a humanoid full synthflesh drone barely indistinguishable from a human. (SF) |
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Sep 6 2006, 06:12 PM
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#45
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
In d20 Cyberscape, they include craziness like quadrupedial bodies and built in jetpacks. I think going that far out is a definite style thing. But if you go there, you're def. not going to do it with Bioware.
Now, vat grown wings.... I'd be all over that. |
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Sep 6 2006, 06:40 PM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I'm not sure that humans are built light enough to support actual flight with reasonably-sized wings. Stylistically, wings ought to be easy enough to do (though they might require some cyber too... think the "semi-autonomous balance tail," which was chipped to move on its own.
Now, if you start getting into major bio-sculpting and 'ware (think bone density reduction combined with some sort of ultralight lacing to maintain strength, major muscle streamlining/wiriness, removal of body fat, and the replacement of some organs with more efficient, smaller (or at least lighter) equivalents), you might be able to get reasonably-sized effective wings onto a human without crippling them or forcing them to get a cybertorso. And you could always depart significantly from nature, and make the wings capable of folding up a few times in the process of being tucked away... |
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Sep 6 2006, 07:23 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 20-December 05 Member No.: 8,088 |
Blatant cyberware is also part of an image, and where jobs involving violence are concerned image is 50% of it. Plus the ability to have your (cyber)arm blown off and still keep fighting instead of bleeding to death and dying from shock right there is incredible.
Cyberware will always be a desirable option - and it's not even expensive :) |
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