 Is SR3 magic broken? |
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 Sep 6 2006, 03:24 PM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
From what I've read, you can reduce almost all your karma costs down to nearly zero with metaplanar quests you don't have to roleplay and orichalcum.
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Sep 6 2006, 03:26 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 573 Joined: 23-July 03 From: outside America Member No.: 5,015 |
Just play it yourself. It's not broken. It's magic. It does what it does, and it can't do what it can't do.
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Sep 6 2006, 03:49 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
The italicized part is not a rule. If the GM chooses not to roleplay metaplanar quests that's his choice, not areflection on the magic rules. |
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Sep 6 2006, 03:57 PM
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#4
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Well, there is the official option to just have the mage resist a listed damage for each place in the quest, rather than roleplaying it.
I agree that the GM has to choose not to roleplay the quests, but even if the GM does choose that, he/she is still playing within the rules. Those rules can be nice if the party's spellcaster decides to go on an unanticipated quest as part of a run, but for any quest that you might know about ahead of time (such as for an initiation or learning a spell or whatever) I think that should be RPed out on the side. Have that character's player show up for the session an hour early or something. The GM really should be RPing as many metaplanar quests as possible. |
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Sep 6 2006, 03:57 PM
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#5
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Dammit. Hit the wrong button. My answer is no.
Just because you don't feel like running it well doesn't make it broken. Actually, I'd say that from your original question, you don't have enough knowledge or understanding to even validate asking. |
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Sep 6 2006, 04:12 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 573 Joined: 23-July 03 From: outside America Member No.: 5,015 |
If I understand correctly, Emu doesn't even play 3rd edition shadowrun. He's not asking a question to help him play or GM a game. Any responses given here won't be put to use. It's just a way to start an argument he can watch. Or to criticise MitS without buying it. |
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Sep 6 2006, 04:21 PM
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#7
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Define "broken". It has places that, sadly, demand house-action (whether official houseruling or merely a spoken or unspoken agreement not to do certain things), so one could call it broken based on that—making Orichalcum is the big thing, though that's more a money issue. Is it unusable? No.
~J |
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Sep 6 2006, 04:26 PM
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#8
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
And yet people keep responding to this shit. And yes, I see the irony. Thank you in advance for pointing it out. |
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Sep 6 2006, 04:31 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Bunker Gate 7 [CaTCo Compound] Member No.: 4,248 |
Sure, there are some rules broken, but generally SR3 Magic work better than SR4 Magic
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Sep 6 2006, 04:31 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Hey! Look at the irony in that last SL James post!!! ;)
You're welcome. :) |
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Sep 6 2006, 04:32 PM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
And there it is. The statement the original troll was digging for. Step back folks! :) |
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Sep 6 2006, 04:45 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 573 Joined: 23-July 03 From: outside America Member No.: 5,015 |
/sigh
Please can we have this "poll" locked? |
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Sep 6 2006, 05:34 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 3-February 06 Member No.: 8,223 |
Yup we could lock it. Or we could prove the system is not broken by pointing out that each astral quest to reduce karma points takes [rating]d6 hours to complete.
So even if your DM choses not to roleplay and choses to ignore the optional rules to just let your karma reduction fly, your group sure as hell wont stand for the mage never answering his phone when a new job is in because he's away on the planes, minimizing karma cost on the new spell. |
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Sep 6 2006, 05:36 PM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Dude, I'm not trying to criticize Mits, I'm trying to find out if I should play SR3 instead of SR4.
Jesus. And since you have so overwhelmingly come out in favor of it not being broken despite the exploits, I think I'll buy MITS. Happy? |
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Sep 6 2006, 05:50 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 573 Joined: 23-July 03 From: outside America Member No.: 5,015 |
Maybe not this time. I refer you to your erudite opinion:
in the other thread.
If you were considering buying MitS your poll would have been "Would buying MitS benefit me and my game since I play SR4 and am considering playing SR3?" Then everyone would have voted yes. MitS provides useful background for 4th and is nearly essential for 3rd. Asking if the 3rd ed magic system is "broken" on a board where you know full-well lots of people play 3rd ed and like it, but that no system is ever perfect, is provocative to say the least. Pull the other leg - it's detachable. |
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Sep 6 2006, 05:54 PM
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#16
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...for one thing, Mundanes have a better chance to resist spells since Body and WIllpower attibute ratings define the caster's target numbers in most instances. |
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Sep 6 2006, 08:53 PM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
Which really did make the world of difference. Hmm... house rule ideas abound in my mind now... |
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Sep 6 2006, 09:13 PM
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#18
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...of course, I am taking this from a mundane character's point of view.
With the Variable Target Number (set by attribute) in SR3, most of my characters withstood spells cast at them more easily. They may have taken some damage/effect, but at least they didn't go down in one shot. In my book, that is not broken With the Fixed Target number and Attribute Cap in SR4, Character attributes (other than Body for a few transformation manipulations) have no effect vs. spells. You basically take the hits since the caster is usually flinging more dice than your character can defend against which usually has resulted in the character going down pretty much the first time they were hit. In my book, that is broken. |
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Sep 6 2006, 09:50 PM
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#19
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
However the lower base damage of combat spells in SR4 (no cast at deadly) means that while it is harder to resist in 4 your less likely to dropped by the first shot as I found in SR3. Since all mages I saw cast their combat spell at 6 they had both more dice and lower TNs than the target, cast at deadly=dead target and TN 3 for drain (manabolt, powerbolt is only for vehicles) means fairly easy to ignore the drain with a few bonus dice. Now a force six manbolt does similar drain (ie nowt) and the cast can do 12 boxes max with your resist reducing tht straight down so it's likely to be 10ish boxes which a decent thug can take (okay only once, but then it's his turn and -3 dice won't save the mage from two bursts of Ex Ex from sammies AR)
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Sep 6 2006, 10:53 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
I liked the 3rd edition magic system. Metaplanar quests are, by definition, a serious risk. There's nothing saying that you'll automatically succeed, and since it's not a single test, or even the same kind of test every time, you can't really plan out a way to munchkin your stats around completing it. To say nothing of the fact that your buddies can't really help you, unless they can also travel to the metaplanes.
Likewise, can you even do a metaplanar quest if you haven't initiated at least once already? |
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Sep 6 2006, 11:07 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 226 Joined: 5-April 03 Member No.: 4,388 |
Yes, but it is not real easy. Need access to the metaplanes. Like through a free spirits astral gateway power. |
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Sep 7 2006, 12:08 AM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Yes, play SR3, you romo.
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Sep 7 2006, 12:24 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Why would you call him a short-lived British pop cultural movement?
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Sep 7 2006, 12:35 AM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
what i really find hilarious is how emo constantly provokes flames (by his own admission), but once in a while he's all "zomgz how could you guys think i'd do that!"
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Sep 7 2006, 12:37 AM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Really? I've never seen him say "zomgz."
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