 Overcasting, reigning in the cheese |
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 Sep 6 2006, 07:20 PM
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#26
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98  |
You mean, kinda like Al Qaeda is "regretting" the 9/11 attacks right now? It's been five years, and they don't exactly seem crushed. |
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Sep 6 2006, 08:39 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Ok, alternate drain formula: (Force +- drain mods) / 2 instead of (Force / 2) +- drain mods. here are some sample spells and their drain codes force 1 to 9. As you can see dividing last downplays the effect that drain mods have on the drain DV because it "slides the scale" over one instead of changing by 1 across the board. Resisting drain of trivial spells is less guaranteed at very high force, and casting very difficult spells is less suicidal. A lot less.
Personally I think it's a great change and may result in elemental spells seeing regular use. I can't remember the last time anyone in a game I played cast a real honest to ghost fireball. Spell Name : drain formula Force Drain DV, dividing first (canon) Drain DV, dividing last (house) Alleviate Addiction : (F/2) -4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 Shattershield : (F/2) -3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 Orgasm : (F/2) -2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 Stunbolt : (F/2) -1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 Manabolt : (F/2) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 Improved Invisibility : (F/2) +1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 Control Thoughts : (F/2) +2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 3 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 Chaotic World : (F/2) +3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 4 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 Mob Mind : (F/2) +4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 5 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 Fireball : (F/2) +5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 6 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 Napalm (2-elemental effect spell) : (F/2) +7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 8 8 8 9 9 0 0 1 1 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 |
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Sep 6 2006, 08:50 PM
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#28
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
My GM had set it up so that overcasting increased the drain exponentially. So overcasting by 1 point was a +1, by 2 was a +2, by 3 was a +4, etc. Overcasting was suddenly much less common. I also like the idea of drain damage only being healed by rest.
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Sep 6 2006, 09:20 PM
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#29
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
im not entirely sure about the correctness of said comparison, but i was expecting to see a 9/11 refrence sooner or later :P |
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Sep 6 2006, 09:23 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Now all we need is a comparison to Nazis and we'll have ourselves a "debate" :D
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Sep 6 2006, 11:16 PM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
The book says to divide first. Do you hate the book? Do you hate books in general?
Do you know who else hated books? The Nazis. QED. |
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Sep 6 2006, 11:31 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Hoorah!
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Sep 6 2006, 11:58 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 19-January 04 Member No.: 5,992 |
hitler.jpg^50
Okay, so dumpshock doesn't do images. You'll just have to imagine this Fifty Hitler Post, okay? It's the Where's Waldo version with 49 Hitlers and 1 Stalin. |
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Sep 7 2006, 03:41 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
Yeah, I covered this in a previous thred.
I gets more insane when you over summon a spirit of man and then have it overcast. Force 24 without initiation anyone! Overcasting is only really a problem on combat spells anyway, anyone got a fix for that? |
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Sep 7 2006, 03:48 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Spirits overcasting? I wouldn't do it if i were it. First, you've summoned a Force 12 Spirit, which is not going to respect your weak ass, and second you're asking it to hurt itself for you, the weak ass. It would do it's best to screw you over. "The most powerful version of the spell you just gave me? Sure *witholds dice for spellcasting* I'll do that :]" |
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Sep 7 2006, 04:22 PM
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#36
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Doesn't overcasting do physical drain which can only be healed naturally?
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Sep 7 2006, 04:26 PM
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#37
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Drain cannot be healed magically, but some spells have drain codes low enough that you can overcast with little to no chance of taking drain.
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Sep 7 2006, 04:28 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
Yes. If a player forced his spirit to overcast, it could certainly be grounds for future spirits being hostile - completing orders literally to screw your intention, attacking you if they ever go uncontrolled (not that anyone would bother banishing them), and automatically applying the -2 sustaining penalty whenever you call a bound spirit.
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Sep 7 2006, 04:45 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
Got a page ref on that? |
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Sep 7 2006, 04:48 PM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Street Magic states that it is an optional rule to allow drain to be healed by magic. It has been stated here by the designers that magic is not meant to be able to heal drain and it will be clarified in the FAQ. As far as I know there's nothing stopping drain from being healed with First Aid.
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Sep 7 2006, 04:50 PM
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#41
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
It's in Street Magic. One of the optional rules is to allow overcasting damage to be healed magically. Implied, obscure, but clearly indicating the non optional rule is that physical drain isn't normally allowed to be healed with magic. |
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Sep 7 2006, 04:51 PM
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#42
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Target Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,063 |
There is no page reference... yet. One of the writers said that Physical Drain caused by Overcasting was not ment to be healable with magic (I don't know about First Aid, I'm hoping that's still allowable). Street Magic apparently assumes this to be true and it's supposed to be in the FAQ when/ if that ever gets put up.
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Sep 7 2006, 05:01 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
Yeah don't have street magic yet. The british suppliers were cocks about it. Only got enough stock for two big companies. And pretty much told everyone else to go hang. So my city missed out. I gotta wait 2 more weeks. |
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Sep 7 2006, 05:37 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 127 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Sweden Member No.: 1,313 |
Astral offensive wins... you know, since I like the world in one piece there's only one solution: no unlicensed mages. We have to put them all under control... maybe some kind of corps to take them in young, foster them into good lawful citizens who we control and who can scan the globe for every little upstart that got through.
What should we call this corps? Potential Shattershield Inhibition Corps, yeah, that's it. I feel a new campaign coming up... |
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Sep 7 2006, 05:59 PM
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#45
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I get that reference. It's the Bester :D. |
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Sep 7 2006, 08:50 PM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Hey, I figured it was a closer comparison to SR's Huk vs. Chinese situation than WWII's Pacific War, and it seemed like a valid point to make. I could invoke Vietnam, if you prefer. |
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Sep 7 2006, 09:10 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
I never really saw a problem with healing physical overcast, especially since you'd only have one chance to heal it all afterwards with a spell (the only 'fast' fast way I would expect to cause problems). The reason? any spell you are going to overcast for that you'll likely need healing after to avoid death have high drains anyways, so overcasting them will be high enough to make any half decent shot fatal. Sure, if you don't shoot them, they'll probably heal a part of it, but that's time spent recovering and not fighting. And if it happens to be a low drain spell, well...short of deathtouch and similar limited circumstances, it's not entirely a big deal if your mage has a nosebleed to paint the mercedes (only if someone shoots a grenade into the backseat before he heals up). |
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Sep 7 2006, 09:41 PM
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#48
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 14-August 06 Member No.: 9,113 |
Can you give a reference for this part, I don't recall reading that the spirit had an option like this? |
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Sep 7 2006, 09:53 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
Sidebar, pg. 178 of SR4. It's an option to keep your mage from calling five bound spirits to attack all at once. Suggestions are to only apply it if the magician "abuses" spirits, or only after the first bound spirit.
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Sep 8 2006, 02:48 AM
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#50
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
no chance of getting it shipped from leisure games or something? hell, i plan to do so and im not even from the UK. the only national shop i know that have SR4 products in have yet to get runner havens, much less street magic... |
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