 The pen is mightier..., Adept missile power |
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 Sep 21 2006, 03:42 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 663 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Memphis, TN Member No.: 8,811  |
I'm making an adept and I want to check my math.
If I take the missile power that lets you turn cards and pens into deadly weapons and stack it with the increased throwing power (I don't have the books in front of me and I forget the real names) is there a limit to the stacking? Currently I'm looking at my strength 4 adept with the missile power and 4 levels of the throwing ability. That gives him +8 STR for throwing damage. So with a simple pen that means I am doing 6P damage [4+8]/2. If my reflexes are 5 that means I can throw 3 items a round. So that's 3 6P damage attacks with a pen. If I use a throwing ax I get the +1 to all weapon damage so that means I'll have 3 [4+8]/2 base +1 missile master +2 for ax. So that's 3 9P attacks a round... :eek: This only gets sillier if I take boost attribute 3 times for STR. That means a card will be doing 8P and the ax will do 11P. Is my math OK and is that a bit to twinky? |
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Sep 21 2006, 03:54 PM
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#2
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
On first glance I would say that your math is correct. And yes, it makes some badass adepts. Judging solely from reading alone, Power Throw/ Mighty Throw is too unbalanced.
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Sep 21 2006, 03:56 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
Isn't there a thread on here where the author of the power basically said that the STR bonus was only used to determine range and not damage? Or am I seriously mistaking my memory?
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Sep 21 2006, 04:02 PM
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#4
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, it applies to both.
What the author didn't like was the fact that as a result of imprecise wording, the power modifies Strength (even though it does so conditionally), and thus would be restricted by the Augmented Attribute Cap. Ironically, this keeps powers like Power Throw, Combat Sense, etc. in check... |
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Sep 21 2006, 04:08 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 663 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Memphis, TN Member No.: 8,811 |
That's what I was thinking. I'm making a kid from the barrens and I figures I wanted him to use as much homemade weaponry as possible (the only gun I bought is a Streetline Special and he only has that so he doesn't look odd not having a gun and for intimidation). So I figures having him chuck sharpened pieces of plascrete and fiberglass would be cool. Next thing I know I'm looking at a person who can drop a troll at 5 meters with a business card. :D I hate twinky min-maxed characters and this just screams "Come and see the violence inherent in the system!" So far I have him with the following Adept powers: Missile Master (or whatever): 1 Mighty Throw (4 levels):1 Armour (2): 1 Boost Strength (3): .75 Missile Catch:.25 Then I'm taking 2 dice in magic as an shaman. Considering I'm only starting with 5K :nuyen: as a self imposed limit I have decent skills. I'll post the entire toon when I'm done. Needless to say he has throwing 5. |
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Sep 21 2006, 04:23 PM
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#6
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
but it allso made it useless to buy mroe then 2-3 levels of said power as it hit the modified attrib max barrier very quickly.
and i belive the expence of the magic rating (with initiation and all that) plus the straight cost of levels of the power adds up to a very nice barrier without invoking the attribute barrier. sure, this means a adept can use allmost anything as a weapon, but it allso cuts into whatever else he can get given that money for weapons comes out of the same pool as the points used to buy adept powers. so the only advantage he have over a equiped samurai is that he cant be disarmed. but get a smg or similar in a cyberholster, and with a bit of luck the guards will not notice that (sure they may spot the leg, but if they dont bother to scan they may not spot the holster). and 3 attacks pr round? not unless you have multiple IPs. it will take a single action to ready 3 items with your 5 reflexes, then it will take a simple action to throw each of them. thats 4 simple actions in my view, so atleast two Ips needed. with a SMG on full auto i can engage atleast that many targets in a single complex action. so in the end i only see it as potentialy broken in the high end game as there isnt a upper limit (if one disregard the STR limiter, and its existence is debateable at best), but the cost will after some time be in the area of insane. oh and maybe the more or less perfect concealability of the power. i see it more of a problem that the firearms of a samurai cant keep up with the high end game. but that have allways been the diffrence between the samurai and the adept. strong out of the gate (samurai) vs long time power (adept). |
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Sep 21 2006, 04:27 PM
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#7
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Sure. But adding exceptions basically defeats the very idea of an absolute cap. |
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Sep 21 2006, 04:35 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 663 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Memphis, TN Member No.: 8,811 |
Actually adept powers are much more expensive considering I only get 6 at max for a starting character. And for those 60 BP I could by a hell of a lot of cyber and gun skills. :cyber:
That's part of the romance of the character. (considering dropping armor to 1 to get quick-draw). A grimey streetpunk with a sharpened piece of plastcrete vs a fully cybered Sam with an SMG. Sure I might get killed, but I'd stand a chance and the image is just to striking in my mind to let go. Debating getting rid of the 2 dice of magic for more powers, but I'd like to keep where you drop him off tied up and naked in the middle of the Barrens and he'd be able to survive. |
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Sep 21 2006, 04:59 PM
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#9
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
but then its allready stated that the power is badly worded, as it not supposed to be a general strength mod, but rather increase the damage and range of the "weapon used". its just that as both is based of strength, its simple to say that you add to strength. this way you only have to write one number rather then writing one number of the damage mod and one number for the range mod. so its not a expeption, but bad wording. |
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Sep 21 2006, 05:06 PM
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#10
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That's exactly the problem. It doesn't matter how you justify an exception - it is there and will act as precedent. Right now, until there is an errata, any temporary modifier involving attributes instead of effects is capped. |
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Sep 21 2006, 05:15 PM
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#11
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
so rewrite it to remove the strength reference and be happy.
something like this maybe: "the power adds +x to the range and damage of any trown item or weapon" and here i thought i was a rules lawyer... |
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Sep 21 2006, 05:25 PM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
It this would be the only appearance of such wording gone wrong...
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Sep 21 2006, 05:46 PM
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#13
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
you have other examples?
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Sep 21 2006, 06:11 PM
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#14
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The most prominent examples are bone enhancements and Combat Reflexes, Rapig Healing, etc.
There is absolutly no need to even mention attributes, if you inteded dice pool modifiers... |
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Sep 21 2006, 06:12 PM
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#15
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
maybe so, but its a nice way to mark what pools get affected in a general sense if your going to affect every pool where strength plays a part and so on.
it allso kind of futureproof the modifiers and its unlikely that an aditional attribute will be added ;) |
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Sep 21 2006, 06:42 PM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
No, it's not really nice as it raises problems...
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Sep 21 2006, 06:43 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Broda
Get a contact, or bride someone, at a range, to get the used bullets dug out of backstop. These bullets will have the rifling from the weapon that fired them. Grin, May cause a bit of confusion when people start turning up with wounds from Lone Star / Renraku / etc.. weapons. And I think in my game, we will not "cap" the power throw. Don't think it will be abused, because the player does not want to be a one trick pony, that can be taken out at range. |
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Sep 21 2006, 08:53 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 663 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Memphis, TN Member No.: 8,811 |
No idea where a kid from the barrens could get used bullets :D I'm sure there in just about every wall in every building by this point. Probably the only thing holding the buildings up.
I'm not really intending him to be a one trick pony, that's why I want the 2 dice of magic. I'm also going to be fairly skill heavy. Street smart type of skills, I'll probably have a decent Charisma due to being a shaman; still working out what goes where for attributes. |
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Sep 21 2006, 11:08 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
I just built this character as more of a traditional Wuxia monk, albeit a troll. ;)
Athletics at 4. Polearm at 4. Throwing at 6. Unarmed at 1, just in case. Then a bit of escape artist, leadership and perception. I spent a lot on skills and attributes (200 on atrributes, plus Edge and Magic 6, and 116 on skills). Then picked up Synaptic 2, and the basics in gear plus a weapon focus. Then I got some of the awesome Wuxia adept powers in SM - Wall Running, Glider so far, and going to add more as I initiate.... |
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Sep 22 2006, 05:48 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,637 |
Why does this keep coming up? The very author of that power has already spoken on this power, on these boards, and has said the FAQ will set you all free.
This power DOES NOT modify strength, at all. It modifies throwing damage. This power is absolutely not affected by the strength cap, not at all, not what so ever. Your math is correct, and yes, this combo does indeed rock. |
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Sep 22 2006, 10:20 AM
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
This may be what was inteded, but not what was written. And those small inconsistencies still add up... it's not for the FAQ to fix them, it's already worth an errata. |
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Sep 22 2006, 10:53 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Ah, but the idea wasn't to use just any bullet. You want to you bullets from sepcific targets. If you do a run against Aztec, use Knight Errant/Ares bullets., etc... As a general rule, carry Lone Star (or what ever the local police service provider is) bullets, use them. When forensics are done on the bullets, it just adds to the confusion, or even better, diverts suspicion from you. |
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Sep 22 2006, 12:19 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
NEWSFLASH : THE MARCHMELLOW SLAYER STRIKES AGAIN :grinbig:
Today Mafia hitman Donatelli Fuchetti was killed in what was described as a bizarre drive-by "shooting" as a man(?) dressed in a Stay Puff Marchmellow man suit drove by on skates and peppered the hitman with what our Star sources tells us was Marchmellows. "Details are still sketchy but it appears as the marchmellows actually punched straight through his armor and tore through him as if they were real bullets." "After a short pursuit by local law enforcement the attacker apparently vanished but the Star are confident that they will find the killer..." |
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Sep 22 2006, 12:36 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Hmm, somehow I don't think that marshmellows would cause any damage, maybe at the most, a knockdown test.
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Sep 22 2006, 01:16 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Actually they can. An adept with missile mastery can choose wether a weapon that normally inflicts stun can do physical instead. Magic can do some wonderful things, and a marchmellow in the hands of a troll with STR 8 and Power Throw 6 flings that deadly marchmellow with 7S or 7P. I wonder if one could have an an adept that has evolved his ability into spitting instead. Full auto water melon seed spitting. :rotfl: PTOW! |
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