 Enhanced Aim + Dual Wielding Guns, What modifier applies? |
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 Oct 21 2003, 05:31 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 25-September 02 From: Sydney - NSW - Australia Member No.: 3,321  |
One of my players raised an issue about whether the -#TN benefit from an Enhance Aim spell works with dual wielding guns.
I know SLs,scopes,lazers and other gunmods dont help when dual wielding and u get ur +2 TN for dual wielding plus damages plus vision mods.. But what if a mage cast a lvl 6 Enhance Aim with 6 successes riding behind it..so thats -3TN to the guy with dual guns. Does that -3TN apply to: A. Both attack tests (-3TN per gun) B.1. Only the first or the second (shooter choses) B.2. Only the first or the second (caster choses) C. Shooter choses to split the -3 inot maybe -2 and -1 or such? the spell isnt quite specific on this matter, so ... please help. |
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Oct 21 2003, 05:52 AM
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#2
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I though it said every ranged attack... Ouch: That is nice.
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Oct 21 2003, 05:55 AM
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#3
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Yeah, I'd say since it was a spell that's always on, you'd get the boonus for all your attacks. Although it's pretty hard getting enough sucesses on the casting to get a -3TN to begin with. Plus, just remember that as a spell it has an effective range that it doesn't work past IIRC.
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Oct 21 2003, 06:15 AM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's why you always use the Extended variation. Balance that increase out with the Personal modification if you aren't planning on casting it on others. :) |
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Oct 21 2003, 06:26 AM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Note also that this spell is resisted by the people you're shooting at, which can reduce your bonus.
I house rule that away, though. I imagine plenty of others do as well. |
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Oct 21 2003, 07:19 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 2-March 03 Member No.: 4,188 |
Wha-? Why?
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Oct 21 2003, 07:26 AM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it's a detection spell. detection spells are resisted.
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Oct 21 2003, 07:37 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 2-March 03 Member No.: 4,188 |
Crikey, you learn something new every day. We've just been using the higher target numbers, based on the difficulty.
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Oct 21 2003, 10:12 AM
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#9
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Did you just use the word crikey as an exclamation in a proper sentence? Oh I am so showing this to Jes. Bwack-ack-ack. :D |
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Oct 21 2003, 11:14 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 2-March 03 Member No.: 4,188 |
Yes, yes I did. But you seem to be implying more information than I am understanding.
What is wrong with what I did? According to Merriam-Webster: Main Entry: cri·key Function: interjection Etymology: euphemism for Christ -- used as a mild oath Looks like I'm in the clear. And what does Bwack-ack-ack mean? |
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Oct 21 2003, 02:26 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Crikey was something Penfold always said to Danger Mouse. If you've ever watched the cartoons. :)
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Oct 21 2003, 02:54 PM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Yeah, the Enhance Aim is very weak unless you have a good 6 Karma Pool and some Quickening under your sleeve. My friend recently pulled it off and tattoo'd/quickened a Force 6 on himself with 30 dice and 3 rerolls for 15 successes and went from the local detection/weakling to pretty bad-ass with a gun. -7, but took him almost 150ish karma to get to that point.
Sphynx |
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Oct 21 2003, 03:10 PM
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#13
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
Interesting considering tha fact that the maximum negative modifier for Enhance Aim is half the spell's actual force (not the one used for purposes of dispelling when tattooed or quickened) .. In this case Force 6 / 2 = 3 ...
Not to mention those somewhat high numbers of dice / successes .. But as I recall these are pretty standard in your games ... |
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Oct 21 2003, 04:22 PM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Sheeze... forgot we House ruled that one to a max of Force. Sorry. :P
BTW, Cochise, you can roll as often as you like and wait til you get a good roll to quicken (even with a tattoo, the description only states that once the tattoo is ready you can quicken as above). He tried repeatedly til he got 12+, which took 3 rolls and ended in 15. Though, I imgine that's considered munchkin in most games, we call it fun factor. :P Sphynx |
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Oct 21 2003, 05:28 PM
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#15
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I wouldn't call it munchkin; but if he tried it multiple times in a row, I'd apply the +2 repeating-a-failed-task modifier.
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Oct 21 2003, 05:40 PM
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#16
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I was just typing that cain.
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Oct 21 2003, 05:52 PM
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#17
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
That would still require a Force 7 spell anyway to accomplish what described above ... not Force 6 ...
I know ... But it still is not very common to have spellcasters sling 30 dice (I know it's possible, but to me that's still not standard. No matter what you say (or Polaris would, considering his *must take every thing to the extreme*-attitude). And characters with the possibility to take consecutive 3 re-rolls need a karma pool of at least 1+2+4 = 7 => Something that isn't extraordinary when looking at the 150 karma he obviously spent on it. But in my games players tend to burn karma pool every once in a while. So my players usually don't have that much karma pool availible ...
I won't call it munchkin, since that is not my judgement to make. If it pleases you and your group that's fine with me. But I still don't consider you or your gaming group as being "standard" ;) |
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Oct 21 2003, 05:59 PM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Not a Force 7 cause he uses Laser Sights. :P
The +2 is for repeating failed attempts, not for recasting it at a later time for more successes. That'd be a stupid time to add a +2. Sphynx |
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Oct 21 2003, 07:07 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 6-October 03 From: Tempe, Arizona Member No.: 5,692 |
Heh. He Used Centering, of course, right?
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Oct 21 2003, 07:36 PM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Center against what? Centering reduces penalties, not base TN's.
Sphynx |
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Oct 21 2003, 07:40 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 6-October 03 From: Tempe, Arizona Member No.: 5,692 |
You can also Center for extra successes, I believe?
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Oct 21 2003, 08:32 PM
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#22
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Ah, good point, but I don't think he did. Centering is too expensive and the only artistic skill he has (that I know of) is tattooing, which I don't iamgine he could center with. :P However, I honestly don't know, that was between him and the GM, I just know he gets -7 (-1 from Laser Sight) and rolled 30 dice.
Sphynx |
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Oct 21 2003, 08:58 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 6-October 03 From: Tempe, Arizona Member No.: 5,692 |
I'd definitely allow centering with art, even with (hell, especially with) tattooing. It all ties together, after all.
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Oct 21 2003, 09:14 PM
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#24
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
For rerolls our team uses 1+2+3 = 6, as per SR3 p. 246.
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Oct 21 2003, 09:35 PM
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#25
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
You're right of course ... Doesn't change what is "common" in my group(s) though ... |
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