Would you like cyberware and biotech to be real? Options

[emo samurai]

I'd like cyberware to be real so people with lost parts of their bodies could function well again, and I'd like organ transplants to be easy. Then again, people would need cyberware just to function in the workforce; market forces would make them get it even if they're completely against it. So what do you think, after you consider all the social ramifications?

[Shrike30]

What social ramifications? I can't imagine that many job fields that would be able to succesfully require hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of invasive surgery and implantation. People who got cyber might do so for an advantage, but I'm having a hard time imagining the days when Boosted Reflexes are required to practice law or do surgery. Minor cyber like datajacks and implant comms would be like the cel phones of today... not a requirement in most situations, but convenient.

And in the meantime, there's plenty of people out there who might really appreciate their osteoporosis being Laced away, their spinal injuries being Wired away, their lost arm from childhood being replaced...

[nezumi]

I want to be able to vote twice. Someone else vote for the 'yes yes sign me up for the pilot' option.

I'm tired of this meat bod. It's little, it gets beaten up too easily, and sometimes it smells strange. I want a body that sweats WD-40 and can make julian fries.

[Fresno Bob]

I'd like a cyberarm, so I can crush the previously uncrushable.

And lung replacements, so I won't have to eventually quit smoking.

[fistandantilus4....]

I want the details of why someone voted no. Besides, not everything is for conveinance. The most 'cyber' these days is all being made to help people with disabilities. Look at Johhny Spinrad. He's like 70% cyber, but all because of a plane crash, not because he did it for kicks. Imagine what we could do if we could just re-grow someone's failing liver or kidneys.

[Kagetenshi]

Where are the "yes, replacing parts of my body is akin to selling my soul" and "no, it allows people to function again" options?

~J

[Squinky]

Just think, with a datajack a guy could make tons of very similair polls with just a thought....

[John Campbell]

I see no evidence that there's any thought involved.

[Kyoto Kid]

...hmmm, no more pain or stiff joints from arthritis (Enhanced Articulation)

being able to read street signs from 4 blocks away...in the night... (Vision Enhancement w/Low Light)

not having to worry about bone degradation...(Bone Density)

yeah, I think it is worth it.

[Frag-o Delux]

Sadly all the money in cyber and bio would be to make bigger and better boobs and fix broken penises. And the super bowl will have tons of commercials for it.

Besides all the cyber and bio will still be way out of reach of the average person once its availible. The med corps are going to make it exspensive, they have to make all that money back from R&D eventually some how. The people that are getting the prototype stuff now are only getting it because the med corps need test subjects to test ideas. Wait till something like a fully functional nearly natural cyber arm is created or a process for cloning a liver is perfected, itll be pretty damn exspensive.

I can also see insurance companies turning down the operations as they will call it elective surgery. I mean having a missing arm replaced? You can live with out it and if you didnt have that accidental dismembement insurance you can forget it.

Yeah I think all that stuff should be created, but I dont think everyone should have equal access to it either. If you take on dangerous bahavior I dont think you should be given the same options as the guy that didnt. Meaning if you have a genetic disease that destroys your liver then fine, let the med corps grow you a liver. But if you are an alcoholic and you destroy your liver I stand behind the insurance corps denying your liver transplant request.

[Kagetenshi]

If you're clinically depressed and attempt suicide, do you stand behind the insurance corps denying your emergency room charge?

~J

[Squinky]

[hyzmarca]

While this would be true in a holistic economy, we don't live in a communist state here. If the goverment is going to give you disability payments for life then why should the insurance companies bother paying for the new limb? It only costs them money.

Consider that current insurance companies cap the spending on artificial limbs to $10,000 in a lifetime; consider that the cheapest pegleg available commercially costs $30,000; and consider that a child with a missing limb will go through several prostesis because prostesis do not grow along with the body.

So the insurance companies will only pay for 1/3 of the most usless artificial limbs when reasonably an individual may need a dozen or more SOTA limbs, not including specialized limbs for work or athletics.

[Kyoto Kid]

[nezumi]

I think Squinky's point isn't that the insurance company pays it up, but rather the place of employment. If the paper cutter balanced pecariously on my cubicle wall falls and cuts off my left arm, the government will likely pay disability for the rest of my life or pay for some sort of rehabilitive surgery.

Of course, if the paper cutter I've balanced on top of my fridge at home falls and chops off my arm, I'm getting whatever care my health insurance company feels is appropriate (and I have no idea how they decide that) plus about $5,000 from my death & dismemberment policy which I can spend as I please. Possibly something from my life insurance as well, since they sometimes cover dismemberment, but I'm not sure how much. Probably not the $30k requires for a cyberarm, unfortunately.

[Dale]

Cut this damned Essence from me and give me Chrome.
Metal is better than Meat.


Dale - woud-be cyberpsycho

[Frag-o Delux]

[Squinky]

Thats my point really. Governments and companys (insurance or otherwise) pay it out the ass when someone gets a crippling injury. I really believe that the costs of running a cyber-replacement type clinic would save millions.

[Frag-o Delux]

[Dale]

Well Darpa just started funding for finding a way to make that mouse that regrows body parts that are cut off to help humans somehow. I hope the process is available on the Black Market in a couple years.

[Mistwalker]

You guys are neglecting the biggest market for cyber and bioware.
The military
The would start with the special forces and go from there, depending on how things went from there.

If the spec forces soldier lives longer, is harder to kill, etc..., it costs less, in the long run that to train up a new spec forces soldier (or so I have been told).

Once the military got into it big time, the price would come down.

[Squinky]

[Frag-o Delux]

No if the military gets into it the price will be what ever the government decides to pay, then if there becomes a civilian market for it the price will come down. But only to a level thats reasonable to the med and insurance companies. We are talking about medicine after all, you need it to live, TVs cost less because you can live with out one. Look at medications and surgeries, they are still highly exspensive. And I think you are highly over estimating the usefullness of cyberware in the military. As of July 31st 2006 the US has just under 1.4 million service men. That is nothing compared to the almost 296 million US citizens. Now what percentage do you think will be entitled to cyber ware that would make the price come down? Roughly 721,000 of those people are in the Navy and Air Force which I highly doubt would need wired reflexes, a few would get VCRs but even that number would be low with all the Riggers taking Pilot spots. One Rigger could do the job of a wing of pilots. The Army is a grab bag, they have a lot of rear area personel, like artillery and support units, but they do have tanks and helicopters so maybe theyll get VCRs, so that leaves marines so of the 179,000 marines how many do you think will get combat cyberware? Well If I could afford it, all of them.

Now lets get to practicality. Even if you say 50% of that number are combat personel or are in need of cyberware to make their jobs more effcient or even better you are still only looking at 700,000 people. Not a very large market. Then we get to enlisted men, a lot of people today join the service to get the GI bill benefits. Now Im not saying they arent good citizens and such, but they are looking to serve their tour, hopeing they dont get deployed and coming out on top with training and a degree to jump into the private sector to get a better job. They are not the people you want to put 500,000 worth of harware into, if not more depending on price.

And even more to the point. There are people doing god damn bake sales to raise money t pay for body armor and kevlar inserts for their Hummvees because the government cant afford it to put every soldier or marine in body armor and armored vehicles. So, where would you like the country that spends more on defense then the bulk of the countries in the world and more then like the next top three countries combined to get the money to equip even 100,000 hard core soldiers with the latest in cyberware?

Yeah the latest cutting edge tech in less then 100,00 people is really going to drive the market price down on very limited use ware.

Cheap poor quality cybernetics would be the parts that get cheap enough to make it to market for the average citizen, but then youll still have these people in the hospital constently having repairs and upkeep done to them. Youll get things like cheap limbs, and maybe some brain implants for parkensons and such, maybe some filters for kidney disease and things like that. But the price and availiblity of things like wired reflexes, VCRs, smartlinks, they are all going to stay exspensive and I highly doubt an insurance company is going to foot the bill for any of that. Even Datajacks, you dont need it to do your job and by 3rd edition you have trode nets which make you just as fast as a datajack user in tortoise mode. Any person higher up the food chain will have the money to have it installed on their own dime.

Where the real promising advances will be is in bio tech. With certain types in power the advances needed to be made are being hindered, well in this country anyway. So it seems a lot of amputees will be needing to go to Europe or Canada to get the needed surgeries. Which insurance companies wont pay for.

If you want you could add int eh roughly 664,000 Police officers to that list as well. Bu tthey have all the same problems the military faces, lack of funds, lack of security for the investment made on the officer, and really, if the cybrware isnt on the streets for criminals to have, why would th epolice need it?

[Frag-o Delux]

[KarmaInferno]