 Where does the inspiration for SR magic come from? |
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 Oct 3 2006, 12:20 AM
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#26
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168  |
Or possibly Druidic?
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Oct 3 2006, 12:24 AM
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#27
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Exactly. Just dressing up in the uniform and having 'campouts' with a bunch of pre-teen girls doesn't really make a girl scout anymore than claiming to be able to write and add makes you a Hermitic. This disturbing image momment is brought to you by a large case of Twinkies and insomina. |
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Oct 3 2006, 12:25 AM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,379 Joined: 16-April 02 From: the LI shadows Member No.: 2,607 |
If I may toss in my $0.02.....
I believe that SR magick is a combination or New Age, classical, 'traditional' and natrual-world-view concepts mixed in, with a healthy dose of consequence thrown in. Let me explain..... Back in the days when I played AD&D, long beofre WotC bought them out, the fantasy-magic was easy to play....almost too easy. There was no real consequence to miscasting a spell, enchanting, spirit summoning, ect. The higher you went in level, the more powerful you got. If you blew it on a cast spell, even Create Food, it just didn't work, the spell was used up & you had to wait until you could cast it again. Huh? Sure, the caster could get 'fatigued' slinging spells all day, but so what? A little rest, a good meal, and the mage/cleric/shaman/ ect. was up & ready to go at it again. I remembered one of the Voyages of Sinbad films, one starting (a relatively unknown) Tom baker as an evil wizard trying to thwart Sinbad's current quest. When he created an alchemical flying spy (a homunculus, by SR standards), which drained him slightly. But when the spy was discovered & killed, the wizard felt it & aged rapidly! Magic had a price! It was not long afterwards that someone sent an article into Dragon magazine detailing some of the effects of miscast magic (I cannot recall who, when or what issue). After being burned out on all the then-releasing books coming out for AD&D (SpellJammer, Planescape, ect), I discovered a flyer for 1st edition SR & looked through the book. Magic, it seemed, had to be channeled throught the nervous system of the caster & into it's effect. If it miscast, the mage paid for it in Drain! It had me hooked. The sci-fi elements, as I was just getting back into cyberpunk fiction (Gibson's Neuromancer, Burning Chrome, Mona Lisa Overdrive,ect.) was the icing on the cake. So, I would say, that's what SR's magic is. What you make of it. |
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Oct 3 2006, 12:31 AM
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#29
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Hehe, so I guess Burning Wheel tosses in an unhealthy dose of consequence. Because not only do you have to set aside dice while sustaining a spell, but if you fail the casting you get a random spell effect that basically is some sort of perversion of the spell you tried to cast. One of which can be ripping a hole in the fabric of whatever that lets a deamon step through and own your ass. Oh, and the only way to learn a new spell is try casting it when you don't really know what you are doing and the odds of screwing it up are much higher. You also can't just do this in the comfort of your comfy abode, it has to be in the line of duty as it were.
But definately I agree with you BookWyrm. P.S. I'm not sure how far it goes back, but there were a few spells like Haste that had consequences in prior versions of D&D. Of course for some races, specifically Elves, the consequence was usually that you became more kickass. :love: :wobble: |
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Oct 3 2006, 01:07 AM
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#30
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Adult Red Draon becomes Great Wyrm Red Dragon by learning the 1st edition version of haste! Yay!
I think the miscasting spell effect would be awesome in SR. Finally, all those pictures of mages that burned themselves with a new spell in the lab would come true. I wonder if they just thought it would over-complicate things. Oh, and James, I think you're right. I think Kenson is pagan, not into wiccan. Thanks, that makes more sense. *wanders off picturing SL James dressed as a girl scout with a bad blond wig in pig tails singing camp songs around the fire* |
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Oct 3 2006, 05:26 AM
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#31
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I think I remember a scene when he sets his Ally Spirit free later on in the series (this was after his straight female team-mate wanted to get a sex change operation so she could be a gay guy, 'cause she was in love with Talon and wanted him to love 'her' back), the Ally Spirit (motorcycle/wolf/hawk) gains a new form of "very pretty young man," and the two smooch a few times and talk about how much they love one another and stuff. But, yeah. He was the young'un in a father-figure/pedo relationship, too. |
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Oct 3 2006, 05:40 AM
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#32
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Actually, yeah. That's what I meant in terms of effect. But as far as SK is concerned, AFAIK he is a pagan. It's kind of sad that the pedophilia was the least awful thing about that book. |
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Oct 3 2006, 05:46 AM
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#33
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Funny, since the last three novels he wrote starred a hermetic magician and her hermetic troll mentor, and had only a brief appearance by a shaman, who hardly seemed like a favorite character. |
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Oct 3 2006, 05:48 AM
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#34
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Seriously.
Least. Hermetic. Mage. Ever. Worst of all, the only time I didn't think Talon was a tool was in the DHS, and that was because it was written by someone else, and so SK couldn't cum all over himself about how cool his former PC-turned-Mary Sue novel protagonist was. |
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Oct 3 2006, 07:48 AM
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#35
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
I've never read any books about Talon, I was talking about Kellan Colt. Who, granted, was subject to a big helping of deus ex machina because of the amulet, but who never struck me as being particularly un-hermetic. She was very green, and didn't own a library yet, but her training, and her mentor, were about as hermetic as it gets.
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Oct 3 2006, 08:35 AM
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#36
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Hi I'm Wiccan, more or less, I'd use blood in my rituals as appropriate, why the hell else would we take knives into the circle, other than to cut the honey cakes of course. |
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Oct 3 2006, 09:14 AM
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#37
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Seriously. It can be pulled off, just like almost every other "thou shalt not" in writing, but "thou shalt not write about thine own characters" is a pretty damn good rule for gaming fiction. ~J |
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Oct 4 2006, 03:25 PM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,379 Joined: 16-April 02 From: the LI shadows Member No.: 2,607 |
Thank you, blakkie. I don't read The Burning Wheel series myself, I have enough to keep up with.
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Oct 4 2006, 03:30 PM
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#39
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
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Oct 4 2006, 04:40 PM
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#40
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Yeah. We know. |
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Oct 4 2006, 05:13 PM
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#41
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
All this awesomeness.... :D
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Oct 4 2006, 05:22 PM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Every once in a while, I think I should dig back and read some of the "classic" SR novels. And then someone reminds me about Talon.
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Oct 4 2006, 06:30 PM
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#43
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Sorry, just the Wiccans that I know think of using blood a lot like SR magic in general does. Basically, it's bad. Not Wiccan myself, just going off what other Wiccans have told me. Hence "by my understanding of it". |
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Oct 4 2006, 07:17 PM
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#44
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Oh, I know. I know. But the biases are annoying as Hell. I try hard not to let my own beliefs about RL magic and religion affect my writing, and that's why I let people read over and help edit my writing. For someone who's been published, it's even less acceptable to me that he does it and gets away with it. |
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Oct 4 2006, 07:55 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 12-August 06 Member No.: 9,097 |
For people who use their characters mostly as a fantasy outlet, yeah, I would agree. But for people who RP solely as a creative exercise, I don't see the harm in it. I've read plenty of good fiction casting the author's character(s) as one of the main protagonists. |
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Oct 4 2006, 09:42 PM
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#46
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
See the first half of that second sentence there.
~J |
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Oct 4 2006, 10:36 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 12-August 06 Member No.: 9,097 |
Yeah, but you're saying it's a rare case that writing about your own character isn't a bad idea. Your experience probably differs from mine, but I find that people who can pull it off aren't so uncommon that they should be considered an exception. In fact, many of the best fanfiction that I've read stars characters that were actually used in a game - they were fleshed out so much during the course of the game that little extra work was required to bring them to life on the page.
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Oct 5 2006, 12:46 AM
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#48
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
To answer the original question, some of the idea behind magic in SR was due to Larry Niven's The Magic Goes Away, and various parapsychological phenomena (astral projection, etc.)
More recently, the individual interests and personalities of the writers have strongly influenced the flavor of various traditions, metamagics and abilities. |
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Oct 5 2006, 04:27 AM
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#49
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Time to go to the library. Thanks, AH.
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Oct 5 2006, 05:07 AM
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#50
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
There's a difference between fanfiction and canon in-game published fiction. No one cares about fanfiction but (for the most part) other fanfiction writers. When someone's publishing novels with the game logo on the spine, and writing sourcebook chapters that deal with the source material of his own character (IE, Kenson writing significant chunks of the magic rules, while writing novels about his character Talon, the mage) -- well, things can get sticky. We can hop way far out on a tree limb for a second and we'll even say he doesn't let his personal beliefs color his writing, doesn't let his religous thoughts color his sourcebooks, doesn't let his perspective translate into game mechanics, doesn't show favoritism by bending or ignoring the rules while writing for his character, blah blah blah... and, well, the perception is still there. The potential is still there. Much like when someone at work dates their boss, or a student dates a college professor -- it might all be on the up-and-up, and that person might still receive wholly professional and impartial treatment from that authority figure despite the fact they're regularly swapping bodily fluids... but it's still not a very good idea, nor does it look good to coworkers/other students/other faculty/whatever. Having someone write canon material (and sourcebooks relating to that canon material) about their favorite character (and their favorite religion) isn't generally too good a plan, if someone else can do the writing instead. |
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