 The Warez "Scene" in SR4, What is it like? |
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 Oct 20 2006, 06:27 AM
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#26
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Awakened Asset  Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309  |
We decided that the process of copying a software does just make one copy, rather than completely removing protection.
Ingame, youŽd have to fake program registration in the same way (but much easier) than faking a SIN. Common legal use programs can be found free on the matrix. Welcome to open source. Outgame, a warez situation like it is today would lead to any runner having any needed program at the same rating as the groups hacker, and that char will have it max rating. We do not want that. |
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Oct 20 2006, 01:19 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
I don't know if the writers are trying to parallel copyright protection to real life or make their own version of it in SR4. If it is based upon real life that would mean the copyright protection would only need to be broken once in order to copy the program to many machines. It is hard to tell because the rules are obviously made to be general. An unfortunate side effect of this is that sometimes they can be ambiguous where no specifics have been given. Realistically there would be many different types of copyright protection. As the character broke the different copyright protections out there he would become familiar with how to break each one. Once you learn the in and outs of a certain copyright protection it becomes a lot easier to break that specific copyright protection. I don't think the SR4 devs were going for realism in the rules because there are many things that just don't fit into todays copyright protection scheme.
So pretty much what the whole long drawn out blurb is meant to mean is we really need clarification from the devs. Though usually the best way to make decisions about the rules in this sort of situation is to forget realism and think game mechanics. Due to game mechanics I believe copyright protection would have to be removed for each and every program and each and every install of that program to a system. |
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Oct 20 2006, 04:11 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
I didn't think that redgistraton was part of the code. Can't anyone who cares look at your persona and see that you're using a pirate copy of the Isis Orb OS? If they analyze your Icon and don't find a legit redgistratoin shouldn't you be prepared for some cyber combat, or atleast a stern talking to? What I'm asking is if the first solutions aren't the best solutions. Back in the day you could share software with no problem. Put it on several really big flopies and load it onto someone elses computer. Then the internet happened and you didn't have to put it on a dozen flopies or even know they guy who owned it first. So they came up with redgistration codes. The installer wouldn't load the software without the code. Still no problem "hack" the redgistraton code and you can use the software. There are some problems though, you can't use upgrades, and you can't use the developers support resources on line because they'll look for a good redgistration code when you connect with the web site. Right now this isn't an issue. The software is ony on your node/host/whatever. In 70 years isn't it different? Your 'hacked' software isn't on your host, it's every where you navigate to in the matrix. |
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Oct 20 2006, 09:12 PM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 5-June 06 From: Nashua, NH, USA Member No.: 8,645 |
There is a thriving business model now where new exploits are found, kits built, and then sold to Spam houses for use in their latest malware or spam-bots. For the most part, that is not free, but for sale. That is the type of community I envision the Hacking programs coming from, thus the price tag for the "freshest" stuff. If there is no SOTA involved, then it must be a license fee to keep the program up to date :cyber: |
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Oct 21 2006, 01:22 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
I'm going to have to go with "Probably not" on that one. The whole idea of cracking software is that you trick it into thinking that it's properly registered. It's definately not going to be broadcasting "I'm warez" to everyone in sight. Furthermore... cybercombat? With who, exactly? It's not like there's "copyright police" patrolling every host on the matrix looking for people who didn't pay for their Vector Xim install. |
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Oct 21 2006, 03:48 AM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
why not? I'd like to understand how cracking works in RL too i thought you would have to crack the redgistration database of the corp to provide a legit looking registration code for each copy. How is redgistration for software different than a SIN# for a person.
I think I understand that. You do that so you can load the software. I can get a fake ID that lets me buy beer. But my ass is in a sling if it gets checked by anyone with access to the DMV or Equifax. I know that the redgistration can be hacked so you can load and run the software but that's not going to help if an Agent/Decker/Host with access to the redgistration database runs Analyze on your cracked version of Miracle Shooter.
Well I hope so, but if I'm in charge of Mangadyne I probably keep a bunch of agents on the RTG's and major public hosts doing just that. I realy would like to know more about RL cracking and Shadowrun hacking. A point that no one has mentioned yet is that Shadowrun software and bullets are way too expencive on the otherhand Shadowrun hacking is probably much more easy than it's going to be in RL 60 years from now. |
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Oct 21 2006, 05:12 AM
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#32
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
In RL you fool the software into thinking it's real, typically by compromising the entire verification routine of the SW, as well as the auto-updates and similar thing you don't want hacked SW to do. If you foolishly allow you hacked SW to phone home for bugfixes and updates it will tend to suddenly die, as the manufacture has a list of bogus serial numbers. I'd assume hacked programs don't call home or broadcast serial numbers. If they did that part of the code would get trimmed out. You probably CAN'T use a hacked set of code to connect to a net game, as they will look very deeply at the program looking for hacks. But for normal purposes, nobody cares. The local stuffer shack doesn't care whether you are real or not, they care whether you are going to rip them off. If your account has money, the bill gets paid and you don't contest charges they will be glad to sell you a 6 pack of Pepsi with just about any ID. But fake IDs that fool the people in the local jails booking unit are a whole other matter. Just like trying to register your hacked copy with the publisher for a free upgrade. It's rather likely to not work out well. |
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Oct 21 2006, 06:12 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
I get that and that's what I'm saying, by not broadcasting a serial number you're essentialy telling anyone who cares to look that you've got Warez loaded into your persona. I understand, that this is just a mental exercize, (for me anyway). Obviously if you have Exploit active in your persona the fact that your Exploit is a pirate copy doesn't matter much. Ditto x 2 for any Attack prog. But the questions apply to the world at large. I think the everyday user might be more wary of Warez because it's kind of the same thing as walking around the mall with a shoping bag full of stolen shit. I'm sure that there's some places you just don't go with warez active. |
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Oct 21 2006, 06:59 AM
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#34
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
Seeing as hacking programs are not legit without license to begin with... I doubt any hacker walks around broadcasting that they have anything more nefarious than an ECCM to block electronic attacks.
Seriously, I doubt your average Joe will be packing anything in the hacking range of programs. How many average computer users actively use reg-hacks for their software? Most people blissfully/blindly buy commercial grade software - unless they're handed a crack by a family member or a friend. While even neophites these days will look for warez, in the SR universe where the wrong site might mean your software is loaded with Black IC, downloading unprotected 'free' software might be a little more hazardous to your health than just having a fried PC. For this reason alone, I think that cracking/hacking communities will be small in number. As for Matrix Police: I think there will be. Where most host will be corporately controlled, the relatively free use of the Internet we enjoy today will have a few more loopholes to jump through. |
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Oct 21 2006, 07:30 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
Real software doesn't do that. In fact, with real software the serial number is super-secret because if anyone else knew it they could register their copy with the same serial. Allowing arbitrary 3rd parties to verify that a user has a valid registration code is actually very difficult. It is possible to attempt to implement that kind of functionality, but it's not a very effective anti-copying mechanism because A.) the crackers can break it and B.) nobody will check it for you. In conclusion: no, arbitrary 3rd parties have no idea if you're running warez or not unless they can hack into your commlink. |
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Oct 21 2006, 07:41 PM
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#36
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
The only example I can think of where even the publishers rigidly and regularly check for hacked software are online games, where they want to make sure you are not using hacked games that allow you to cheat. Along with not paying the monthly tithe, which they are very fond of. But this is only possible because they have spent a quite a lot of trouble designing a system that allows them to probe your software and system for oddities, and you willingly connect and allow this to play their game. |
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Oct 23 2006, 03:18 AM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
One correction I would like to make also is about updates and the quality of the program from a warez release. The software is going to be just as good as the real thing, except all protection, tracking, phoning home, or anything else similar will not be present. As far as getting updates to the software, it is rather simple. Some work so you can get updates directly from the software developer. If the updates are more restrictive, then all successive updates will be released by a warez group. There are only some very few small cases where the warez experience isn't going to be as good as if you would have bought it. Usually this has to do with tutorials and technical support. Even then you could just download an ebook and use unofficial forums for assistance. There really isn't much limiting what can be done with a warez version of software. The only case I can think of right now is Starforce3 protection, but that protection is so harsh it actually has been known to mess up peoples machines and in some very rare cases do damage. Even then, there are Starforce3 titles out there that have been cracked. It sort of goes by the saying that "nothing isn't hackable".
When you think about it, warez works the same way as outright stealing something. It would be the same as going to my local Ares dealer and pocketing some guns. I realize it isn't easy, but if you know their security procedures you can find a way to steal the guns right out of the store. Maybe you wait for a truck shipment to come by and take a few when they are unloading, or create a diversion to get everyones eyes off of you to take it right from underneath the shopkeepers nose while your hacker friend has looped some false footage onto the security cams. The warez release groups do the same thing. They have a group of highly talented individuals that crack the program and distribute it to everyone for free use. Every angle is covered just like a professional operation to steal some of Ares guns. From a game mechanic point of view I am thinking warez wasn't covered because it wasn't necessary. There is already a game mechanic available to get stolen programs. That is to buy them and then crack them. Though arguably if I had a loyalty 5-6 hacker as a contact I could get them from him. That would be sort of like the same thing except obviously not large scale like a warez release group whose cracked version goes out to thousands of people. |
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