I have a few questions about warez in SR4. In case you don't know, warez is a common term used for pirated software, games, music, books, and pretty much anything that is stored electronically that it can be cracked, hacked, stolen, or made to be used freely. Their ideal is that all information should be free even if it means stealing other people's hard work and intellectual property.
From a game mechanic view I would say that right away anything downloaded would have to be cracked, even though in today's age everything is cracked by the team that distributes the warez. Though besides the obvious what about:
How prominent is the Warez Scene?
How closely is it tracked by the government and anti-warez groups?
Is there anything from SR3 that would help?
Full Version: The Warez "Scene" in SR4
Well, the big question there is one of game balance.
If all software was available for free, Hackers and Riggers would not have to spend any Nuyen on that stuff.
"I downloaded all programs and a dozen Agents for free; all Rating 6."
So, if you do not want this, you have to declare the Warez scene effectively dead.
Then look for reasons, why it is dead.
Bye
Thanee
If all software was available for free, Hackers and Riggers would not have to spend any Nuyen on that stuff.
"I downloaded all programs and a dozen Agents for free; all Rating 6."
So, if you do not want this, you have to declare the Warez scene effectively dead.
Then look for reasons, why it is dead.
Bye
Thanee
depends on what you consider warez.... i would say at any given time, theres going to be a large selection of music, movies/tv, games, pornography, and sims, as well as a few BTLs availible for free as warez if you know where to look.
in regards to actual programs and softs, these are a bit risky... while there are some out there, your much more likely to get a nasty virus than a usefull program. having a personafix in your linguasoft to send all your money to an unlisted account is just one of the horror stories...
basicly, its a lot like the internet now. you can find a fair amount of abandonware for free, as well as the usual shareware. stuff that will at best amount to a rating 1 with a crappy user interface.... and completely useless for anything hacker-related (leave too big a datatrail to cover).
in regards to actual programs and softs, these are a bit risky... while there are some out there, your much more likely to get a nasty virus than a usefull program. having a personafix in your linguasoft to send all your money to an unlisted account is just one of the horror stories...
basicly, its a lot like the internet now. you can find a fair amount of abandonware for free, as well as the usual shareware. stuff that will at best amount to a rating 1 with a crappy user interface.... and completely useless for anything hacker-related (leave too big a datatrail to cover).
Malware is probably the most likely.
Figure the Warez scene is probably prolifent as it is now with games and productivity software, however inserted code to defeat copy protection that you do not do yourself may very well contain MalWare that will leave you open to all kinds of problems.
And a serious hacker would in all likelyhood have a very real desire to avoid freely distributed software and instead get it from someone who he can trust, even though that trust costs nuyen.
Figure also your nuyen isn't necessarily going to MicroDeck for the newest version of Edit, but it's going to a hacker friend or group who you can trust.
Figure the Warez scene is probably prolifent as it is now with games and productivity software, however inserted code to defeat copy protection that you do not do yourself may very well contain MalWare that will leave you open to all kinds of problems.
And a serious hacker would in all likelyhood have a very real desire to avoid freely distributed software and instead get it from someone who he can trust, even though that trust costs nuyen.
Figure also your nuyen isn't necessarily going to MicroDeck for the newest version of Edit, but it's going to a hacker friend or group who you can trust.
| QUOTE (Teulisch) |
| depends on what you consider warez.... i would say at any given time, theres going to be a large selection of music, movies/tv, games, pornography, and sims, as well as a few BTLs availible for free as warez if you know where to look. in regards to actual programs and softs, these are a bit risky... while there are some out there, your much more likely to get a nasty virus than a usefull program. having a personafix in your linguasoft to send all your money to an unlisted account is just one of the horror stories... basicly, its a lot like the internet now. you can find a fair amount of abandonware for free, as well as the usual shareware. stuff that will at best amount to a rating 1 with a crappy user interface.... and completely useless for anything hacker-related (leave too big a datatrail to cover). |
QFT
I'd say that if a hacker wanted to get a program (that has game affecting stats) I'd require a data search test followed by a hacking test. Each test has a threshold equal to the rating of the program. The data search determines if you can even find a SOTA version of the program you are looking for. Pass the hacking test and you have cleared any possible virus' or other malicious traps from the file which you are now free to use just as if you had purchased it. Fail it and you discover that there is a problem with the file and are unable to fix it, rendering the file useless. Glitch or Critical Glitch your comlink is now host to a virus, dataminer or other nasty surprise the nature of which is up to the DM.
| QUOTE (Eleazar) |
| I have a few questions about warez in SR4. In case you don't know, warez is a common term used for pirated software, games, music, books, and pretty much anything that is stored electronically that it can be cracked, hacked, stolen, or made to be used freely. Their ideal is that all information should be free even if it means stealing other people's hard work and intellectual property. From a game mechanic view I would say that right away anything downloaded would have to be cracked, even though in today's age everything is cracked by the team that distributes the warez. Though besides the obvious what about: How prominent is the Warez Scene? How closely is it tracked by the government and anti-warez groups? Is there anything from SR3 that would help? |
Hacking apps in SR4 is rather trivial. With 8-12 dice it'd take less than 12-hours to crack the protection and distribute freely. As such, pirated software is the standard (per SR4 description) rather than the exception, however there is no mention of the cost difference between Pirated and non-Pirated warez. The odd part of trying to sell pirated warez brings into play a lot of questions.
Once you've cracked it, everyone can have it. If someone pays the nuyen to buy cracked warez and gives to all their friends and associates then there is no longer a demand for it and the price for it would drop. In order to keep demand high, you would need to offer better and better warez at a higher cost. Lower rated warez are probably as common as dirt, with higher-end warez costing more. I think this might already be reflected in the cost gap from Rating 1-3 to 4-6 in SR4.
If you wanted to add a roleplaying slant on this, then suppose the warez dealer gets busted (they all seem to eventually), I would imagine he's have no problem giving up the names of his customers (contact Loyalty anyone?) if he faced enought trouble.
| QUOTE (Teulisch) |
| depends on what you consider warez.... i would say at any given time, theres going to be a large selection of music, movies/tv, games, pornography, and sims, as well as a few BTLs availible for free as warez if you know where to look. in regards to actual programs and softs, these are a bit risky... while there are some out there, your much more likely to get a nasty virus than a usefull program. having a personafix in your linguasoft to send all your money to an unlisted account is just one of the horror stories... basicly, its a lot like the internet now. you can find a fair amount of abandonware for free, as well as the usual shareware. stuff that will at best amount to a rating 1 with a crappy user interface.... and completely useless for anything hacker-related (leave too big a datatrail to cover). |
QFF
The reason I say this is because it isn't reflective of how the current Warez "Scene" works. Putting out programs and softs with viruses and malware attached is against the ideal of the Warez "Scene". In reality, when a warez group does something like this the release is "nuked", meaning it is no longer distributed and all current copies are deleted . This is actually a huge hit to the warez group's credibility and I can't believe I am saying this "honor". Warez groups are rated on things like:
Expediency of the release (Were they the first?)
Quality of the release (Was it nuked?)
Thoroughness (Does the program "phone home"?, Is any copy\theft protection present or removed?, etc)
The thing is, people only download warez from trusted warez release groups, at least the people that know the scene. That, and when they download the release they only download from a trusted source. The situation you described sounds reminiscent of someone that doesn't know anything about the scene and is ignorant of how to properly and safely obtain warez. The above described quote is something I would expect from the everyday user who is using a filesharing program to obtain warez rather than using the adequate outlets. Not only that, it would also require poor discretion on that user's part, not only blind ignorance.
I would think that it would be a very dangerous business to distribute warez over the matrix. Mainly because at the root of the matrix, you have corporations providing the infrastructure and access...with everything being trackable and corporations having so much power, I doubt that a rating 6 app would be up for very long...and if it was, I am sure the cracker could easily be tracked down and "dealt with" promptly.
Unlike in today's world, the matrix is not open. Yeah, it is freely accessible by the public, i.e. AR. But overall, I see a much more corporately controlled environment...so, while I have no problem with a hacker removing the copy protection and distributing those programs to his group, I don't think that "anyone" is going to just load up on rating 6 apps via the matrix.
If someone did try it in my game, they would have some heat on them pretty quickly, both virtually and physically...
Unlike in today's world, the matrix is not open. Yeah, it is freely accessible by the public, i.e. AR. But overall, I see a much more corporately controlled environment...so, while I have no problem with a hacker removing the copy protection and distributing those programs to his group, I don't think that "anyone" is going to just load up on rating 6 apps via the matrix.
If someone did try it in my game, they would have some heat on them pretty quickly, both virtually and physically...
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) | ||
Hacking apps in SR4 is rather trivial. With 8-12 dice it'd take less than 12-hours to crack the protection and distribute freely. As such, pirated software is the standard (per SR4 description) rather than the exception, however there is no mention of the cost difference between Pirated and non-Pirated warez. The odd part of trying to sell pirated warez brings into play a lot of questions. Once you've cracked it, everyone can have it. If someone pays the nuyen to buy cracked warez and gives to all their friends and associates then there is no longer a demand for it and the price for it would drop. In order to keep demand high, you would need to offer better and better warez at a higher cost. Lower rated warez are probably as common as dirt, with higher-end warez costing more. I think this might already be reflected in the cost gap from Rating 1-3 to 4-6 in SR4. If you wanted to add a roleplaying slant on this, then suppose the warez dealer gets busted (they all seem to eventually), I would imagine he's have no problem giving up the names of his customers (contact Loyalty anyone?) if he faced enought trouble. |
That is if the software is being bought. The current scene frowns upon selling the software. Remember the ideal. That doesn't mean that I won't walk down New York City Manhattan streets without people shouting out "DVD". Of course it is sold, but this again is for the everyday person. Anyone that knows the scene and what it is, knows the ideal and will have a source to get the warez.
As a Hacker would I use someone else's warez as my agents? Hell no, if you cracked em and can use em whats to stop another hacker who know the same software to hack your agents?
The thing about independent programmers is that they code there software differently than something that is mass produced. It would be harder to crack an individual and unique code than it would to break a mass produced code, why?, because everyone knows what to expect from a legal published corp product than say someone on the street who can tinker around with his program or code hours on end without a crop deadline or user friendly guidelines.
The thing about independent programmers is that they code there software differently than something that is mass produced. It would be harder to crack an individual and unique code than it would to break a mass produced code, why?, because everyone knows what to expect from a legal published corp product than say someone on the street who can tinker around with his program or code hours on end without a crop deadline or user friendly guidelines.
Again, I think the problem here is not the cracking, its the distribution. I don't think the matrix is going to house all these warez, just doesn't feel like the corps would allow it.
If the corps could control the Matrix, there would be no shadownet, etc.
They can't. Much like today noone can control the Internet.
Bye
Thanee
They can't. Much like today noone can control the Internet.
Bye
Thanee
Contrary to much of the posting going on above me, I imagine illegal software distrobustion is probably pretty high in the Hacker community.
However, the availability of said programs is offset by the matter of the code being used exploiting security holes inside of defensive computer programs. When you load up the latest version of Black Hammer, and give someone a whack, it's not quite the same as a 'matrix whack' to their icon. That may be what a scripted animation would display, but that's about the only line of similarity. It'd be much closer along the lines of, as I said, exploiting security holes, inserting malicious code, and all with the intent of crashing the program completely.
As illegal software proliferates, it becomes more likely that the hole is known, or discovered, and it will be patched, or a new version of the software that it target's will be released.
So it's probably like this, though perhaps you'd disagree: Warez available on the matrix to most people who are able to locate it will be outdated versions of programs that were used, once upon a time, to hack through the matrix. The exploits will have long since been discovered, and the liklihood of effectively acting as little more than a nice string of code to reference for future projects is minimal.
The types of programs that Hackers will like to use, are fresh, new exploits, unknown, or as of yet unpatched, into the systems they'd like to hack. Because they're bleeding edge in the hacker community, there is a price tag associated with them.
Without a price tag, you're looking at serious favors from high level contacts.
And with neither a price tag, nor a serious favor from a high level contact, you're looking at the 'h@wtzor l337 hack!' program being behind the electronic intrustion/counter-intrusion curve of usefulness.
However, the availability of said programs is offset by the matter of the code being used exploiting security holes inside of defensive computer programs. When you load up the latest version of Black Hammer, and give someone a whack, it's not quite the same as a 'matrix whack' to their icon. That may be what a scripted animation would display, but that's about the only line of similarity. It'd be much closer along the lines of, as I said, exploiting security holes, inserting malicious code, and all with the intent of crashing the program completely.
As illegal software proliferates, it becomes more likely that the hole is known, or discovered, and it will be patched, or a new version of the software that it target's will be released.
So it's probably like this, though perhaps you'd disagree: Warez available on the matrix to most people who are able to locate it will be outdated versions of programs that were used, once upon a time, to hack through the matrix. The exploits will have long since been discovered, and the liklihood of effectively acting as little more than a nice string of code to reference for future projects is minimal.
The types of programs that Hackers will like to use, are fresh, new exploits, unknown, or as of yet unpatched, into the systems they'd like to hack. Because they're bleeding edge in the hacker community, there is a price tag associated with them.
Without a price tag, you're looking at serious favors from high level contacts.
And with neither a price tag, nor a serious favor from a high level contact, you're looking at the 'h@wtzor l337 hack!' program being behind the electronic intrustion/counter-intrusion curve of usefulness.
Even today you have different distirbution sties being shut down, usally with legal action. I'd think it would be much easier for the corps in SR , since "legal" is more a matter of advertising and "look how nice we are", or loop holes. All they need to do is send in a shadowteam or even corp deckers when they find a matrix site distributing their programs that they paid to have written.
There's also those nifty little decking programs that the corps write and sell that work just fine, until you're on the corp's system. Then all of a sudden your stealth program craps out.
There's also those nifty little decking programs that the corps write and sell that work just fine, until you're on the corp's system. Then all of a sudden your stealth program craps out.
| QUOTE (Thanee) |
| If the corps could control the Matrix, there would be no shadownet, etc. They can't. Much like today noone can control the Internet. Bye Thanee |
They try, they just don't succeed.
Bye
Thanee
Bye
Thanee
I agree with Steak and Spirits.
In addition, I have two suggestions: First, the continuous fixng of security holes (and the release of new legal software) can be modeled by periodic SOTA penalties to program ratings - more frequently for less legal/higher rating stuff. Second, you can get around having to constantly pay to upgrade all your software by forming a "Hacker Group" where you share the programming burden of keeping your tools up to date.
In addition, I have two suggestions: First, the continuous fixng of security holes (and the release of new legal software) can be modeled by periodic SOTA penalties to program ratings - more frequently for less legal/higher rating stuff. Second, you can get around having to constantly pay to upgrade all your software by forming a "Hacker Group" where you share the programming burden of keeping your tools up to date.
I don't think that software security for SR works like it does for us in reality. The copying rules seemed to read to me that the program has to be hacked per installation. This means several hours per installation - doable, but not trivial (unless you have your agents do it, and then it still takes some time and resources tied up).
Also, keep in mind that Hackers aren't going to want to give up their best tricks either - why make your own competition? I can see a lot of rating 2-3 progs out there, some 4s if you know where to look, but 5-6 will probably cost you a few grand.. if the hacker wants to risk selling to someone who might get busted and roll on them.
Also, keep in mind that Hackers aren't going to want to give up their best tricks either - why make your own competition? I can see a lot of rating 2-3 progs out there, some 4s if you know where to look, but 5-6 will probably cost you a few grand.. if the hacker wants to risk selling to someone who might get busted and roll on them.
| QUOTE (yesman) |
| I don't think that software security for SR works like it does for us in reality. |
Actually, they are closer to reality than ever before.
| QUOTE (yesman) |
| The copying rules seemed to read to me that the program has to be hacked per installation. |
Where did you get that impression from?
Here's the long and short of it. I can try to make this make more sense after midterms - next wednesday. As it is, it's terribly subjective.
| QUOTE |
If a character wishes to duplicate a program that is copy-protected, he needs to break the protection. |
Pg. 228
Something about that grammar suggests to me that it's a one shot deal. It's a subtle thing, and I certainly could be wrong about thier intent, but that sentence seems to put the emphasis of copy-protection-breaking on the act of duplicating rather than changing the programs status to duplicatable.
The vaguery is that the conditional is involving 2 actions. Further complicating things is the use of future tense for both halves of the conditional.
To me that sentence reads:
" If you want to duplicate a program, you must break the copy protection" - implication each time (both actions in the future)
English is robust enough for that same sentence to mean:
"If the copy protection is broken, you may copy the program." - implication repeatable.
But it seems that there are cleaner ways to express that sentiment.
I do believe that the powers-that-be have since clarified this to mean that ...
| QUOTE |
| "If the copy protection is broken, you may copy the program." - implication repeatable. |
... is the correct interpretation. I just don't know where at the moment.
Disclamer: I know nothing about RL warez.
But; couldn't the Warez situation in 2070 be influenced by the conecepts that computer use hacking/cracking is much more realtime and aggressive? Aren't software corps actively hunting Warez groups and unauthorized users? AFAIK if i'm using a "pirate" copy of an Adobe program today (which i'm not because...) the only issue is that i needed someones elses product redgistration code and i can't take advantage of the Adobe's on line support infrastructure. If i'm useing stolen software in 2070 what are the odds that an agent hanging out in the matrix is going to detect it, report it, and do something evil to my gear/mind/work.
I know that a good Warez group is going to "clean up" the software befor they distribute--removeing DRM/spyware/mallware/databombs--but they can't provide a legit redgistration code can they? So if I have a pirate copy of WallSpace Sculpt. and I'm sculpting skins that make the whole town look like b00bs, could the developers see that my public works were done with an unredgistered copy of their software? If I'm running around the park playing Miracle Shooter 'Cowboys & Indians' eddition (heh, I miss finger-bullet games) is some agent of the developer going to slag my comlink because I'm broadcasting the fact that i have an unredgistered copy?
But; couldn't the Warez situation in 2070 be influenced by the conecepts that computer use hacking/cracking is much more realtime and aggressive? Aren't software corps actively hunting Warez groups and unauthorized users? AFAIK if i'm using a "pirate" copy of an Adobe program today (which i'm not because...) the only issue is that i needed someones elses product redgistration code and i can't take advantage of the Adobe's on line support infrastructure. If i'm useing stolen software in 2070 what are the odds that an agent hanging out in the matrix is going to detect it, report it, and do something evil to my gear/mind/work.
I know that a good Warez group is going to "clean up" the software befor they distribute--removeing DRM/spyware/mallware/databombs--but they can't provide a legit redgistration code can they? So if I have a pirate copy of WallSpace Sculpt. and I'm sculpting skins that make the whole town look like b00bs, could the developers see that my public works were done with an unredgistered copy of their software? If I'm running around the park playing Miracle Shooter 'Cowboys & Indians' eddition (heh, I miss finger-bullet games) is some agent of the developer going to slag my comlink because I'm broadcasting the fact that i have an unredgistered copy?
Only if noone removes/alters those parts of the code.
Bye
Thanee
Bye
Thanee
| QUOTE (Thanee) |
| If the corps could control the Matrix, there would be no shadownet, etc. They can't. Much like today noone can control the Internet. Bye Thanee |
It's been mentioned a few times in the books that Shadowland is always on the move... you first have to find Shadowland in order to log in.
Now if the corps didn't have so much control over the Matrix, then Shadowland could have a nice little private host permanent address (like my webserver from my home computer) and be happy...
But that's not the case. Shadowland is constantly cycling commcodes and addresses so that those who don't know how to find it, won't.
Those are not mutually exclusive:
Some shadow networks are peer-based, some centralized.
Both shift access to keep the lusers out - corp hackers are as likely to find them as runner hackers.
Some shadow networks are peer-based, some centralized.
Both shift access to keep the lusers out - corp hackers are as likely to find them as runner hackers.
We decided that the process of copying a software does just make one copy, rather than completely removing protection.
Ingame, youŽd have to fake program registration in the same way (but much easier) than faking a SIN. Common legal use programs can be found free on the matrix. Welcome to open source.
Outgame, a warez situation like it is today would lead to any runner having any needed program at the same rating as the groups hacker, and that char will have it max rating. We do not want that.
Ingame, youŽd have to fake program registration in the same way (but much easier) than faking a SIN. Common legal use programs can be found free on the matrix. Welcome to open source.
Outgame, a warez situation like it is today would lead to any runner having any needed program at the same rating as the groups hacker, and that char will have it max rating. We do not want that.
I don't know if the writers are trying to parallel copyright protection to real life or make their own version of it in SR4. If it is based upon real life that would mean the copyright protection would only need to be broken once in order to copy the program to many machines. It is hard to tell because the rules are obviously made to be general. An unfortunate side effect of this is that sometimes they can be ambiguous where no specifics have been given. Realistically there would be many different types of copyright protection. As the character broke the different copyright protections out there he would become familiar with how to break each one. Once you learn the in and outs of a certain copyright protection it becomes a lot easier to break that specific copyright protection. I don't think the SR4 devs were going for realism in the rules because there are many things that just don't fit into todays copyright protection scheme.
So pretty much what the whole long drawn out blurb is meant to mean is we really need clarification from the devs. Though usually the best way to make decisions about the rules in this sort of situation is to forget realism and think game mechanics. Due to game mechanics I believe copyright protection would have to be removed for each and every program and each and every install of that program to a system.
So pretty much what the whole long drawn out blurb is meant to mean is we really need clarification from the devs. Though usually the best way to make decisions about the rules in this sort of situation is to forget realism and think game mechanics. Due to game mechanics I believe copyright protection would have to be removed for each and every program and each and every install of that program to a system.
| QUOTE |
| Only if noone removes/alters those parts of the code. |
I didn't think that redgistraton was part of the code.
Can't anyone who cares look at your persona and see that you're using a pirate copy of the Isis Orb OS? If they analyze your Icon and don't find a legit redgistratoin shouldn't you be prepared for some cyber combat, or atleast a stern talking to?
What I'm asking is if the first solutions aren't the best solutions. Back in the day you could share software with no problem. Put it on several really big flopies and load it onto someone elses computer. Then the internet happened and you didn't have to put it on a dozen flopies or even know they guy who owned it first. So they came up with redgistration codes. The installer wouldn't load the software without the code. Still no problem "hack" the redgistraton code and you can use the software. There are some problems though, you can't use upgrades, and you can't use the developers support resources on line because they'll look for a good redgistration code when you connect with the web site. Right now this isn't an issue. The software is ony on your node/host/whatever. In 70 years isn't it different? Your 'hacked' software isn't on your host, it's every where you navigate to in the matrix.
| QUOTE (Steak and Spirits) |
| The types of programs that Hackers will like to use, are fresh, new exploits, unknown, or as of yet unpatched, into the systems they'd like to hack. Because they're bleeding edge in the hacker community, there is a price tag associated with them. |
There is a thriving business model now where new exploits are found, kits built, and then sold to Spam houses for use in their latest malware or spam-bots.
For the most part, that is not free, but for sale.
That is the type of community I envision the Hacking programs coming from, thus the price tag for the "freshest" stuff. If there is no SOTA involved, then it must be a license fee to keep the program up to date
| QUOTE (OneTrikPony) |
| Can't anyone who cares look at your persona and see that you're using a pirate copy of the Isis Orb OS? If they analyze your Icon and don't find a legit redgistratoin shouldn't you be prepared for some cyber combat, or atleast a stern talking to? |
I'm going to have to go with "Probably not" on that one.
The whole idea of cracking software is that you trick it into thinking that it's properly registered. It's definately not going to be broadcasting "I'm warez" to everyone in sight. Furthermore... cybercombat? With who, exactly? It's not like there's "copyright police" patrolling every host on the matrix looking for people who didn't pay for their Vector Xim install.
| QUOTE (Chandon) |
| I'm going to have to go with "Probably not" on that one. The whole idea of cracking software is that you trick it into thinking that it's properly registered. It's definately not going to be broadcasting "I'm warez" to everyone in sight. Furthermore... cybercombat? With who, exactly? It's not like there's "copyright police" patrolling every host on the matrix looking for people who didn't pay for their Vector Xim install. |
why not? I'd like to understand how cracking works in RL too
i thought you would have to crack the redgistration database of the corp to provide a legit looking registration code for each copy. How is redgistration for software different than a SIN# for a person.
| QUOTE |
| The whole idea of cracking software is that you trick it into thinking that it's properly registered. |
I think I understand that. You do that so you can load the software. I can get a fake ID that lets me buy beer. But my ass is in a sling if it gets checked by anyone with access to the DMV or Equifax. I know that the redgistration can be hacked so you can load and run the software but that's not going to help if an Agent/Decker/Host with access to the redgistration database runs Analyze on your cracked version of Miracle Shooter.
| QUOTE |
| It's not like there's "copyright police" patrolling every host on the matrix looking for people who didn't pay for their Vector Xim install. |
Well I hope so, but if I'm in charge of Mangadyne I probably keep a bunch of agents on the RTG's and major public hosts doing just that.
I realy would like to know more about RL cracking and Shadowrun hacking. A point that no one has mentioned yet is that Shadowrun software and bullets are way too expencive on the otherhand Shadowrun hacking is probably much more easy than it's going to be in RL 60 years from now.
| QUOTE (OneTrikPony) |
| why not? I'd like to understand how cracking works in RL too i thought you would have to crack the redgistration database of the corp to provide a legit looking registration code for each copy. How is redgistration for software different than a SIN# for a person. |
In RL you fool the software into thinking it's real, typically by compromising the entire verification routine of the SW, as well as the auto-updates and similar thing you don't want hacked SW to do. If you foolishly allow you hacked SW to phone home for bugfixes and updates it will tend to suddenly die, as the manufacture has a list of bogus serial numbers.
I'd assume hacked programs don't call home or broadcast serial numbers. If they did that part of the code would get trimmed out. You probably CAN'T use a hacked set of code to connect to a net game, as they will look very deeply at the program looking for hacks. But for normal purposes, nobody cares.
The local stuffer shack doesn't care whether you are real or not, they care whether you are going to rip them off. If your account has money, the bill gets paid and you don't contest charges they will be glad to sell you a 6 pack of Pepsi with just about any ID. But fake IDs that fool the people in the local jails booking unit are a whole other matter. Just like trying to register your hacked copy with the publisher for a free upgrade. It's rather likely to not work out well.
| QUOTE |
| I'd assume hacked programs don't call home or broadcast serial numbers. |
I get that and that's what I'm saying, by not broadcasting a serial number you're essentialy telling anyone who cares to look that you've got Warez loaded into your persona.
I understand, that this is just a mental exercize, (for me anyway). Obviously if you have Exploit active in your persona the fact that your Exploit is a pirate copy doesn't matter much. Ditto x 2 for any Attack prog. But the questions apply to the world at large. I think the everyday user might be more wary of Warez because it's kind of the same thing as walking around the mall with a shoping bag full of stolen shit. I'm sure that there's some places you just don't go with warez active.
Seeing as hacking programs are not legit without license to begin with... I doubt any hacker walks around broadcasting that they have anything more nefarious than an ECCM to block electronic attacks.
Seriously, I doubt your average Joe will be packing anything in the hacking range of programs. How many average computer users actively use reg-hacks for their software? Most people blissfully/blindly buy commercial grade software - unless they're handed a crack by a family member or a friend.
While even neophites these days will look for warez, in the SR universe where the wrong site might mean your software is loaded with Black IC, downloading unprotected 'free' software might be a little more hazardous to your health than just having a fried PC.
For this reason alone, I think that cracking/hacking communities will be small in number.
As for Matrix Police: I think there will be. Where most host will be corporately controlled, the relatively free use of the Internet we enjoy today will have a few more loopholes to jump through.
Seriously, I doubt your average Joe will be packing anything in the hacking range of programs. How many average computer users actively use reg-hacks for their software? Most people blissfully/blindly buy commercial grade software - unless they're handed a crack by a family member or a friend.
While even neophites these days will look for warez, in the SR universe where the wrong site might mean your software is loaded with Black IC, downloading unprotected 'free' software might be a little more hazardous to your health than just having a fried PC.
For this reason alone, I think that cracking/hacking communities will be small in number.
As for Matrix Police: I think there will be. Where most host will be corporately controlled, the relatively free use of the Internet we enjoy today will have a few more loopholes to jump through.
| QUOTE (OneTrikPony) |
| I get that and that's what I'm saying, by not broadcasting a serial number you're essentialy telling anyone who cares to look that you've got Warez loaded into your persona. |
Real software doesn't do that. In fact, with real software the serial number is super-secret because if anyone else knew it they could register their copy with the same serial. Allowing arbitrary 3rd parties to verify that a user has a valid registration code is actually very difficult.
It is possible to attempt to implement that kind of functionality, but it's not a very effective anti-copying mechanism because A.) the crackers can break it and B.) nobody will check it for you. In conclusion: no, arbitrary 3rd parties have no idea if you're running warez or not unless they can hack into your commlink.
| QUOTE (Chandon) |
| no, arbitrary 3rd parties have no idea if you're running warez or not unless they can hack into your commlink. |
The only example I can think of where even the publishers rigidly and regularly check for hacked software are online games, where they want to make sure you are not using hacked games that allow you to cheat. Along with not paying the monthly tithe, which they are very fond of. But this is only possible because they have spent a quite a lot of trouble designing a system that allows them to probe your software and system for oddities, and you willingly connect and allow this to play their game.
One correction I would like to make also is about updates and the quality of the program from a warez release. The software is going to be just as good as the real thing, except all protection, tracking, phoning home, or anything else similar will not be present. As far as getting updates to the software, it is rather simple. Some work so you can get updates directly from the software developer. If the updates are more restrictive, then all successive updates will be released by a warez group. There are only some very few small cases where the warez experience isn't going to be as good as if you would have bought it. Usually this has to do with tutorials and technical support. Even then you could just download an ebook and use unofficial forums for assistance. There really isn't much limiting what can be done with a warez version of software. The only case I can think of right now is Starforce3 protection, but that protection is so harsh it actually has been known to mess up peoples machines and in some very rare cases do damage. Even then, there are Starforce3 titles out there that have been cracked. It sort of goes by the saying that "nothing isn't hackable".
When you think about it, warez works the same way as outright stealing something. It would be the same as going to my local Ares dealer and pocketing some guns. I realize it isn't easy, but if you know their security procedures you can find a way to steal the guns right out of the store. Maybe you wait for a truck shipment to come by and take a few when they are unloading, or create a diversion to get everyones eyes off of you to take it right from underneath the shopkeepers nose while your hacker friend has looped some false footage onto the security cams. The warez release groups do the same thing. They have a group of highly talented individuals that crack the program and distribute it to everyone for free use. Every angle is covered just like a professional operation to steal some of Ares guns.
From a game mechanic point of view I am thinking warez wasn't covered because it wasn't necessary. There is already a game mechanic available to get stolen programs. That is to buy them and then crack them. Though arguably if I had a loyalty 5-6 hacker as a contact I could get them from him. That would be sort of like the same thing except obviously not large scale like a warez release group whose cracked version goes out to thousands of people.
When you think about it, warez works the same way as outright stealing something. It would be the same as going to my local Ares dealer and pocketing some guns. I realize it isn't easy, but if you know their security procedures you can find a way to steal the guns right out of the store. Maybe you wait for a truck shipment to come by and take a few when they are unloading, or create a diversion to get everyones eyes off of you to take it right from underneath the shopkeepers nose while your hacker friend has looped some false footage onto the security cams. The warez release groups do the same thing. They have a group of highly talented individuals that crack the program and distribute it to everyone for free use. Every angle is covered just like a professional operation to steal some of Ares guns.
From a game mechanic point of view I am thinking warez wasn't covered because it wasn't necessary. There is already a game mechanic available to get stolen programs. That is to buy them and then crack them. Though arguably if I had a loyalty 5-6 hacker as a contact I could get them from him. That would be sort of like the same thing except obviously not large scale like a warez release group whose cracked version goes out to thousands of people.
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