 Wires and 'Softs, ... pillow talk |
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 Oct 21 2006, 04:32 PM
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#1
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Immoral Elf  Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486  |
Ok, so I understand the basics ... ActiveSoft ratings limited to the Skillwire's rating ... double 'wire's rating in ActiveSofts at any one time ... switching your 'soft configuration is pretty easy, taking only a Simple Action.
What I want to know is ... #1 - I don't believe that you have to run around with a chip sticking out of the side of your head, so where are they stored after uploading? Do you just plug the into your Datajack and upload them into your head, maybe storing them in the 'jack? (Or a CommLink? Or a cyberlimb? Or your Predator IV?) #2 - Is there any limit to the amount of 'Softs of any variety a person could have 'stored' (not accessed, but ready for accessing) at any time? #3 - Is there a limit to the number and/or ratings of KnowSofts accessible at any one time? #4 - I assume that ActiveSofts are run on the Skillwires themselves, and not on a CommLink. Where are KnowSofts run? If any of these run on a CommLink, do they count as active programs for the purposes of Response degradation? Also, if run on a 'Link, would the 'Soft's rating be limited by the CommLink's System/Response? #5 - Can a person use an ActiveSoft for a Skill in which he is Incompetent? #6 - Under what circumstances does one gain the benefits of a TutorSoft? Could he just activate it an hour here and there, whenever he gets a chance? Could he run it while he sleeps in some sort of self-hypnotic learning trance? I'll probably have more questions following some answers to the above. :D |
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Oct 21 2006, 07:32 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
1: You store the software in any device you deem appropriate. You could probably stor them in your clothes since they are all wireless devices as well.
2: Dont think so - if the GM has issues with it just add multiple copies on different devices (guns, socks, commlink, chips, etc). Or make sure you have a nice online storage, or a tiny drone. 3: I only think the max rating X2 is the only limiter, you can probably have 8 rating 1 skills at a rating 4 skillwire. 4: I would count such items as active programs since they can affect you quite a lot in terms of limiting your charisma linked skills by their rating (if i remember correctly). The reason for that is that even if you are a hot negotiator in english your mandarin knofsoft might limit you a bit. 5: Yes, these are coded skills and not something he/she actually knows anything about anyway - they are pre-recorded. 6: No idea. |
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Oct 21 2006, 08:03 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
#6 - Yes and Yes, depending on your GM. It could be anything from a AR book, to the two things you suggested, or something else entirely.
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Oct 21 2006, 11:40 PM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
So assuming a person had the cash, they could conceivably have every Active Skill and 100 different language and Knowledge Softs on tap, any of which could be ready for use with a mere Simple Action?
That limit is for ActiveSofts running on Skillwires. KnowSofts and LinguaSofts don't need Skillwires, so any associated limit would not apply to them. Does something else factor into the equation to limit the amount of immediately accessible KnowSofts?
I'm not sure what you mean here, or how it actually relates to my question. If you are referring to LinguaSofts being less accurate than actual Language Skills, SR4 states that LinguaSofts provide expert translation and language skills. |
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Oct 22 2006, 12:00 AM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i'll give my best shots at these: linguasofts and knowsofts are programs. you can run programs based on the quality of your commlink/whatever it is. this is the limit you can have at one time. and yes, if you have enough money, you could buy every single activesoft (knowsofts and linguasofts are, for all intents and purposes, unlimited in number). keep in mind that sometimes that action to get to it can be a problem, and that for very large amounts of data your GM can rule you can't store it all in one place... how much is too much depends on your GM's opinion. however, since we're talking about 'given enough money', you could presumably afford the cost of an optical chip to store the data on if you are buying the program in the first place... and since the optical chip is apparently wireless (or at least, nothing says it isn't) you should have enough storage, generally speaking. --------- linguasofts are expert translation programs... in a way. to put it another way, a given linguasoft almost has a specific dialect to it. for example, you might have a linguasoft for english. if it was american english, you would call a device that mechanically moves you up and down between floors in a building an elevator. if you had one for england, you would call such a device a lift. similarly, you might see something like that for flat vs. apartment. neither of those default linguasofts would tell you that someone offering to sell you weed isn't talking about undesirable plants. it wouldn't necessarily be able to tell the difference between Coke (ie coca-cola, or even just a cola type drink as the word is sometimes used) and coke (ie the illegal drug). so do you see how an expert translation may not provide a very correct translation, in certain situations? a linguasoft will generally give you the kind of knowledge you might get from going to school and learning a given language. if you start coming across idiomatic expressions that are local to an area, slang expressions, and so forth, you wouldn't necessarily understand it properly. |
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Oct 22 2006, 12:59 AM
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#6
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I understand that is how they used to work in previous editions. However, in SR4 it states ...
Emphasis mine, but it seems pretty clearly spelled out to me. |
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Oct 22 2006, 01:06 AM
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#7
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
So basically all 'Softs except ActiveSofts run on a person's Commlink, and count as Programs for determining performance degradation of the 'link. ActiveSofts actually run on the Skillwires themselves (and have their own built-in limit). Do the 'Softs fall under the restrictions as to the rating limit of the Commlink's System and/or Response? Would a rating 5 Troll Recipes KnowSoft be limited to a rating of 3 when on a Commlink with System/Response of 3? Would this apply to all non-ActiveSofts? |
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Oct 22 2006, 01:33 AM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i don't see why the commlink's rating wouldn't apply to all 'softs of any kind.
and incidentally, i speak my native language (Canadian English, i suppose) quite fluently. that doesn't mean if someone from Australia comes up to me and starts talking, i'll understand everything they say. that doesn't mean i'll understand someone from Britain even, and all three of those countries are considered part of the commonwealth (albeit not quite as tightly bound as they once were). heck, if i go to some of the Southern states, they might not even use any of their local slang, and i still might not have a clue what the heck they're saying. same thing if i were to listen to someone with a strong irish or scottish accent. and for the life of me, i usually can't understand more than a word or two out of every sentence that comes out of the mouth of someone from India. and i can guarantee that if i go someplace where people bust out street slang, i won't understand it all. my parents also speak Canadian English natively. i assure you, they don't have a clue what IRL, BRB, G2G, LOL, ROFL, or any other internet terms mean. if i showed them leet speak, their mind would probably melt into a puddle of goo just trying to understand that it actually does mean something, let alone that it is "english". thus, 'as fluently as your native language' does not mean 'you understand all dialects, slang terms, idiomatic expressions, etc'... it would mean that, essentially, you must choose a lingo for that linguasoft to apply to... and the default is "as you would learn it in a school", or so i would assume. |
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Oct 22 2006, 01:41 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'm not arguing real life semantics. I agree with what you are saying in that regard. That being said ... According to the SR4 rules, Lingos are a Specialization of a Language Skill. Since the rules for LinguaSofts state that they 'replicate language skills', and make no reference to needing to apply specific Lingo rules, nor require (or even, IIRC allow) Specializations, your argument doesn't really apply. |
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Oct 22 2006, 03:07 AM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
so, in other words, you only want to use the phrase "as fluently as her native language." when it happens to coincide with how you want it to work.
simply put, if you want to rule it that way, then you are looking at a situation where the linguasoft knows the default. that is, it knows the standard words in the language. it does not know any of the specific slang whatsoever, because it can't take the specialisations. at best, it might be able to fill in from context what the meaning of the word may be, because someone who speaks russian natively does not speak russian <insert some random lingo here> natively, they speak russian. |
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Oct 22 2006, 03:53 AM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
Jaid, that's incorrect. according to the rules, a person with English 5 and no specializations speaks english military jargon better than someone with English 2 (Military Jargon). a rating 5 english linguasoft allows someone to speak as if they had English 5. therefore...
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Oct 22 2006, 04:01 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 27-February 03 Member No.: 4,171 |
For what I enjoy and focus on in a game that level of granularity only sounds fun in terms of glitches and critical glitches. I wouldn't bother bringing down the linguist hammer until a glitch occurred. Glitch = the 'soft used 'elevator' instead of 'lift' and the Tir goons narrow their eyes in suspicion, but let it slide for now; critical glitch = the 'soft kicks into Python mode and the PC gets "Spam, spam, spam, spam!" as every imperative response and "Wot's all this then?" as every interrogative response.
My wacky inclination is to treat 'softs in a tiered fashion like Programs. Rating 1 through 3 nets the user commonly-used phrases and allows for contextual parsing, rating 4 through 6 manages colloquial intricacies that are rarely useful, but become crucial when committing the Uber Con. |
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Oct 22 2006, 08:06 AM
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#13
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
You may wish to look at the Language Skill Table on p 129 for additional rules regarding language skill.
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Oct 22 2006, 08:11 AM
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#14
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
It's software. So yes, limited by system/response. |
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Oct 22 2006, 08:14 AM
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#15
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Personally I would give more weight to the Language Use rules in pages 128 to 130 then the single paragraph of item description in the gear section.
The gear description might be nefarious corporate advertising. |
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Oct 22 2006, 02:39 PM
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#16
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
You just need a DNI to use a knowsoft program. No comlink needed, only an access interface (either simlink or datajack). Therefore the limit on matrix programs of system/response does not apply.
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Oct 22 2006, 03:32 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
sure it does. you have to run the program on something... they don't run themselves. |
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Oct 22 2006, 03:49 PM
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#18
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
but you need some place to store the program (heh, i typed problem earlier. what a fitting typo :P ). and alltho the SR4 world features virtualy limitless storage, this comes from the allways present matrix. so the comlink is needed as some kind of bridge. that is unless the GM allows you to store all your knowsofts in the datajack as its supposed to be equiped with memory now...
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Oct 22 2006, 05:59 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
I'll store them and run them on my credstick
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Oct 22 2006, 06:45 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 13-March 06 Member No.: 8,371 |
I always assumed that the skillwires had the necessary hardware to run the knowsofts. (edited for typos) |
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Oct 22 2006, 07:26 PM
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#21
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
skillwires are not needed for the use of knowsofts... |
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Oct 22 2006, 07:37 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 556 Joined: 28-May 04 From: Moorhead, MN, USA Member No.: 6,367 |
But in the absence of a data jack or comlink, will they run knowsofts? Arguably: yes.
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Oct 22 2006, 11:20 PM
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#23
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Hey, its just searching pre-organised data.
Anything with DNI can run the knowsoft - a comlink is just one way of accessing the data. Your eyes themselves will probably not be wireless-enabled. |
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Oct 22 2006, 11:41 PM
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#24
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
KnowSofts need a Sim Module to run...
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Oct 23 2006, 12:44 AM
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#25
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Ah ... good to know. Thanks. :) |
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