 No more flavor text?, Egad! |
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  Oct 29 2006, 04:59 AM
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#1
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,657 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731  |
I bought my first post-FASA Shadowrun book today (been out of the loop for a bit): Man & Machine: Cyberware, for 3rd Edition. I'm more than a little distressed by the complete lack of flavor text (the parts where characters, rather than the developers, are speaking). IMO, it added a lot to the older sourcebooks. Is this deficit typical of FanPro products? If so, why?
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Oct 29 2006, 05:04 AM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,458 Joined: 22-March 03 From: I am a figment of my own imagination. Member No.: 4,302 |
If you're refering to Shadow talk there's plenty of it, M&M might just be the exception to the rule... I haven't opened my copy in ages.
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Oct 29 2006, 05:09 AM
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#3
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I don't recall there being as much Shadowtalk as in the FASA sourcebooks, but it's there, especially in the info-only books (such as the Shadows of... books and System Failure).
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Oct 29 2006, 05:12 AM
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#4
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The rulebooks don't have shadowtalk (or little of it), the other books have it. However, Man and Machine and Cannon Companion are rulebooks rather than gear-focused other books like they were in previous editions.
Apocrypha not considered, of course. ~J |
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Oct 29 2006, 05:17 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,657 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 |
Ahh, I see. Thanks for the enlightenment, gentlemen.
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Oct 29 2006, 07:29 AM
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#6
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Also, Man and Machine was originally published by FASA; all of the 3rd Edition rulebooks were. FanPro later reprinted most of them, however.
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Oct 29 2006, 10:59 PM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Foolish mortal! Don't you know that Man and Machine isn't about flavor text and character development, but is rather about unadulterated munchkinism!?!!?!!!!!
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Oct 29 2006, 11:42 PM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Street Magic has shadowtalk.
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Oct 30 2006, 12:29 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
Seems like every new edition of Shadowrun has less and less flavour in it. I don't like that. Feels like it's taking itself too seriously.
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Oct 30 2006, 01:06 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
Yea but it's 4th edition so it's not worth it. |
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Oct 30 2006, 01:18 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Pain Editors are all about character development. ~J |
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Oct 30 2006, 01:34 AM
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#12
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Yeah, developing them into an extension of the munchkin's ego.
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Oct 30 2006, 02:49 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
it's been a good while....but doesn't M&M have an entire chapter of Shadowtalk regarding Merc Professionalism, taught by some character?
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Oct 30 2006, 02:52 AM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I believe that you are thinking of Matador's extremely noteworthy lecture in Fields of Fire. ;) |
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Oct 30 2006, 03:16 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
I agree completely. Street Magic has almost no shadow talk and what little there is can best be described as dry and annoying. Where's Bung when you need him? ;) |
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Oct 30 2006, 03:23 AM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As was said previously, the trend is (and has been since the advent of SR3) that Rulebooks are for rules, and Sourcebooks are for flavor (with a few rules). Books like M&M and Street Magic are predominantly rules expansions, and as such have little to no shadowtalk, whereas books like Fields of Fire, Shadows of ..., and Runner Havens (admittedly to a lesser degree), contain all the much-loved fluff and shadow community interaction.
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Oct 30 2006, 03:38 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Ah yes...indeed. FoF....now that's a book. |
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Oct 30 2006, 04:25 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Shhh....silly talk of rules being rules is just silly talk of rules being rules. Rubbish! |
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Oct 30 2006, 05:35 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,657 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 |
That's a little irritating. Cybertechnology wouldn't rock nearly as hard without the character narrating his experience being transformed into a cyberzombie. |
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Oct 30 2006, 05:42 AM
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#20
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe so, but it's been pretty much the same policy for the better part of the last 10 years, starting way back while FASA still ran things, before FanPro and WizKids became involved.
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Oct 30 2006, 02:35 PM
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#21
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
There's a difference between fluff and shadowtalk though. Tanegar is, from his example, talking about the difference in Cybertechnology and books of that era, and stuff like Man & Machine. They're both "gear and cyber" books, but one has ... character and the other doesn't.
I'm with ya man. I'd take half the gear/rules if it meant reading stuff like Hatchetman's recollections in every book. |
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Oct 30 2006, 03:17 PM
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#22
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
I agree with everyone's feelings on the flavor text. I loved Hatchetman's story in Cybertechnology also. But it's a juggling act with the current economics of RPG publishing. I can't say I watch the numbers as closely as Rob or Adam does, but I believe the market has generally been shrinking. So the sales aren't usually there to support many seperate book releases on specific topics (one book for cybertech, another book for simsense, another book for bioware), which leads to books that need to fit more material in a strict word count.
So you try to balance it out and that's what we did with Street Magic, but it's tough. |
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Oct 30 2006, 03:53 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I am a big fan of shadowtalk, since I bought my 2nd edition street samurai catalogue.
I liked the way the shadowtalk was handled in Street Magic, how it is there in the background section, but not in the actual rules part, where it would have cluttered up things. |
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Oct 30 2006, 04:43 PM
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#24
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Oh yeah. No digs intended as far as the business and design side. I wish it wasn't the case, but wish in one hand...
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Oct 30 2006, 09:24 PM
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#25
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yes I understand that. I was merely attempting to use variety of words, instead of typing 'shadowtalk' 24 times. :) |
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