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> BOOO Shadowrun, Things we hate in the game
ChicagosFinest
post Nov 4 2006, 06:07 PM
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NO OFFENSE TO THE WRITERS AND ADMINS!

This is meant to be a tongue and cheek bitchfest for all thos parties interested. NOT an attack on the writers and admins (I love you guys like my imaginary frat boy brother. As Chris Farley said "Brothers don't shake hands. brothers HUG!")

So lets bitch, whine and moan about everything and have a good time ok?

For me (I'm reading Runner Havens) my #1 gripe is the Crimson Crush. BBBBOOOOO!!! What a knock of of the Black panthers and BTL dealing on the side? Why doesn't the new govenor (or the old one) flood redmond with cheep BTL's! That will teach those radical ork visionaries a thing or two about doing positive things for the people in there community while being radical and revolutionary enough to stand up against their oppressors. BBBBOOOOOO!!!!!

AGAIN I MUST STRESS THAT THIS IS NOT TO BE OFFENSIVE TO THE WRITERS OR ADMINS. IM HOPING FOR GOOD CLEAN FUN WITH NO PERSONAL SHOTS BELOW THE BELT. :D
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ChicagosFinest
post Nov 4 2006, 06:22 PM
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You know what bad Idea...... Can an admin take this down or delete it. I only see evil comming from this post and not good.
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hobgoblin
post Nov 4 2006, 07:05 PM
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hmm, i expected mfb to have already asked "what isn't?!" or something similar...
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fistandantilus4....
post Nov 4 2006, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (ChicagosFinest)
You know what bad Idea...... Can an admin take this down or delete it. I only see evil comming from this post and not good.

There's nothing wrong with folks having a chat about things they don't like as long as they do it without it degernating into a flaming mess. That being said, please don't let it degenerate into a flaming mess. :)

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Butterblume
post Nov 4 2006, 07:19 PM
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To my knowledge it was never exactly explained how fake sins work. BOOO!
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fistandantilus4....
post Nov 4 2006, 07:20 PM
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Matrix book has some. Essentially data planning, ghacking in to various systems, leaving data behind to 'validate' a SIN. Creating a credit history, school records, birth certificate, etc.

Crimson Crush: They've been around for a few editions. And the mayor can't do that 'cause BTL's are really expensive.Plus, corps would lose their cheap cheap manual labor force. Besides that, you gotta have some "fight the powa'" folks. Other wise, all you've got is "the powa", and that's boring without fighting.
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Butterblume
post Nov 4 2006, 07:30 PM
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I was thinking more of a backtrack search, where someone has your biometric data or dna or whatever, and tries to find all SINs linked to that.

I have some vague ideas about preventing something like that, but they are not very satisfying, and won't work with a central SIN database.

This is the one background issue I never understood, so again: BOOO!
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fistandantilus4....
post Nov 4 2006, 07:32 PM
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Well, a lot of ID types, like high end credsticks, require ID types like eye scans, DNA for platinum sticks, that sort of thing. So it would stand to reason that there would be databases storing this information. Search the systems, and see what matches.

What bothers me is lack of follow up on Hatcherman. BOOO!!
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knasser
post Nov 4 2006, 07:48 PM
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I see no reason why we can't keep this thread civilised - if someone really dislikes Shadowrun, then they're probably not hanging around Dumpshock. All criticism can probably be taken as "I really like SR, but this bit bugs me."

Me? I can't stand Technomancers. Magic taking over the matrix - do not like. It's the only thing in Shadowrun that bothers me, I think. Sadly I think with the next product release I'm finally going to have to start houseruling. Fuck and double fuck. :(

Dragon worshippers. Okay, not Fanpro's fault at all. I just get annoyed by people who go "Ooo Wonderful Lofwyr has initiate grade 86 he's sooo invinicible and green is such an attractive colour, I always thought." etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Yep, that's it. I think I'm done in this thread. :D
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FrankTrollman
post Nov 4 2006, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE
I was thinking more of a backtrack search, where someone has your biometric data or dna or whatever, and tries to find all SINs linked to that.


Well, DNA tests are accurate to about 1 in 1 billion. You can do a more in depth test that is more discriminatory, but I can't imagine that the hand held models have ever been made much better. That means that in the whole world, any strip of DNA you put into the machine is going to turn up like 6 or 7 individuals (many of whom may be SINless).

So if you happen to be lucky enough to have all your genetic duplicates living in the Central African Empire or something where none of them appear on official databases. you could plausibly carry up to 6 fake SINs and have that be backtraced without even raising eyebrows.

DNA scans can rule someone out withincredible accuracy and power. And as sch they make great scans for credstick or entrance verification (if someone isn't an authorized person, they have a better chance of winning the lottery than they do of being able to pass a DNA scan). But they won't make a 100% positive match ever. They'll always bring up a small list of potential people from around the world, and the computer will then check their last financial, travel, employment, and medical records to determine the most likely candidate to put on top. And if your Fake SIN is good enough, it will have enough Google Bombing going on that your fake SIN will come up as the first name and it will have your face on it and everything. That will be the end of that most of the time.

QUOTE
What bothers me is lack of follow up on Hatcherman.


He was the recipient of early Cybermancy over a decade ago. He's dead now, one way or another. With modern, advanced cybermantic techniques he could probablyy persist for that amount of time, but before the sacrifice of people like Hatchetman the cybermancy we have today just wouldn't be possible. The stable cyberzombies of the 2070s are a direct result of hands on research with people like Hatchetman. We salute these brave (and dead) guin... test subjects.

-Frank
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fistandantilus4....
post Nov 4 2006, 07:58 PM
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That was beautiful man. *sniffle*

Thanks for the closure.
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Draconis
post Nov 4 2006, 08:11 PM
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Yes hooray for cyberzomb..... hey wait a sec. Screw those bastards.
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ChicagosFinest
post Nov 4 2006, 08:16 PM
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Not hearing more about cyber zombies in Street magic BBBBOOOOO!!!! :D
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FrankTrollman
post Nov 4 2006, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (ChicagosFinest)
Not hearing more about cyber zombies in Street magic BBBBOOOOO!!!! :D

Cyberzombies were never in the magic book, you'll have to wait for augmentation. Booo!

-Frank
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ChicagosFinest
post Nov 4 2006, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE (ChicagosFinest @ Nov 4 2006, 03:16 PM)
Not hearing more about cyber zombies in Street magic BBBBOOOOO!!!!  :D

Cyberzombies were never in the magic book, you'll have to wait for augmentation. Booo!

-Frank

LOL I stand corrected! Thanks Frank your a loveable guy now get writing on my cyberzombies! Alpha and Omega have a lot of splaining to do!

OH, and BBBBBOOOO about not hearing about Harlequin, His aprentise (I forget her name), or excalibur. BBBBOOOO!!!

FINALLY.. Whats up with no Stuffer shack run at the end of 4th edition BBBBOOOOO!!!!
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Dale
post Nov 4 2006, 08:27 PM
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SURGE : BOO!

And other than Hatchetman, what's happened to all the major signature Shadowrun characters since the last decade? There really needs to be some sort of headcount or something to see who's still alive and in the biz.
Sally? Ghost? Sam? Kham? Wolfgang?
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Butterblume
post Nov 4 2006, 08:27 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
That means that in the whole world, any strip of DNA you put into the machine is going to turn up like 6 or 7 individuals (many of whom may be SINless).

I guess you were distracted when you implied that a search in the SIN database would turn up SINless :grinbig:.

QUOTE
So if you happen to be lucky enough to have all your genetic duplicates living in the Central African Empire or something where none of them appear on official databases. you could plausibly carry up to 6 fake SINs and have that be backtraced without even raising eyebrows.

Would it raise eyebrows if 6 of those DNA matches live in your hometown, and the biometric data (or even an attached photograph) is practically identical?

QUOTE
But they won't make a 100% positive match ever. They'll always bring up a small list of potential people from around the world, and the computer will then check their last financial, travel, employment, and medical records to determine the most likely candidate to put on top. And if your Fake SIN is good enough, it will have enough Google Bombing going on that your fake SIN will come up as the first name and it will have your face on it and everything. That will be the end of that most of the time.

Security isn't dumb, if they got your data from a crime scene, they won't stop looking at the first SIN the computers provide, they know it will be most likely a fake, and take a look at all of them.
Just to be clear: I'm not talking about a SIN check per se, but about trying to find all matching SINs connected to data someone somewhere found somehow for some reason :D.
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kzt
post Nov 4 2006, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Nov 4 2006, 02:51 PM)
DNA scans can rule someone out withincredible accuracy and power. And as sch they make great scans for credstick or entrance verification (if someone isn't an authorized person, they have a better chance of winning the lottery than they do of being able to pass a DNA scan). But they won't make a 100% positive match ever.

This is why DNA is considered is not useful as a part of biometric verification system, which is the application here. It doesn't distinguish between identical twins, clones etc. Plus the sequencing process to get high resolution takes too long to be useful in making go-no go decisions. Its still very useful in other ways, such as biometric identification, but not for verification.

An effective biometric verifier has to have "chaotic morphogenesis of its minutiae". Which means that you don't have duplicates at all because minor initial factors in fetal development change the outcome greatly.

Fingerprints are one. While fingerprint patterns are inherited, the actual fingerprints are unique even between identical twins. As are irises, with a likelihood of a match between two people of 1 in 10^78. And retinal patterns. And blood vessels in you finger. There are lots of useful biometrics useful as verifiers, that will reliably discriminate between a given individual and someone posing as him and are very fast. DNA just isn't one of them.

Exactly what a "fake SIN" is depends on what you want. Do you want to pay for a drink at stuffershack using you online account, do you want to get on a suborbital , or do you want to avoid having the jail in-processing unit figure out that you are not who you say you are when they run everything? Each of these requires a lot more work than the one before. And duplicate biometrics will certainly raise a big flag at either the airport or the jail.
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Draconis
post Nov 4 2006, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (Dale @ Nov 4 2006, 08:27 PM)
SURGE : BOO!

And other than Hatchetman, what's happened to all the major signature Shadowrun characters since the last decade? There really needs to be some sort of headcount or something to see who's still alive and in the biz.
Sally? Ghost? Sam? Kham? Wolfgang?

What you want a VH1 special, "where are they now"?
And I like SURGE damn it.
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eidolon
post Nov 4 2006, 09:15 PM
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SR's "rampant illiteracy": BOOOOO
Different life spans for races as silly ways of saying "look look they're different": BOOOO
Ork litters: BOOOO
IEs: BOOOOO
The presentation of certain entities as Invincible Plot Hammers™ and all-knowing all-powerful you can't beat them (Johnsons, dragons, etc): BOOOO
meta-human variants: BOOOOOO
several things about SR4: BOOOOOOO


gotta go back to titan quest now
:)
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fistandantilus4....
post Nov 4 2006, 09:20 PM
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Glad you got that off your chest finally? :D
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jklst14
post Nov 4 2006, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (Dale)

Sally? Ghost? Sam? Kham? Wolfgang?

There's a reference to Kham on Page 99 of Runner Havens in the shadowtalk by Fatima. Basically, Kham's retired and their is a group called the "Bot'Kham" (translates as Sons of Kham) who operate as a cell for the Creeps.
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Grinder
post Nov 5 2006, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE (eidolon)
Different life spans for races as silly ways of saying "look look they're different": BOOOO
The presentation of certain entities as Invincible Plot Hammers™ and all-knowing all-powerful you can't beat them (Johnsons, dragons, etc): BOOOO

What he said. And more:

AGS: BOOOO!!!!
Only one attribute to resist spells (honestly, who's using Countersopelling all the time): BOOO
Still no good ruling for cyber limbs: BOO!!

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knasser
post Nov 5 2006, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (eidolon)

Different life spans for races as silly ways of saying "look look they're different": BOOOO


I don't get that. Why is it silly? You want elves to have normal human lifespans? I see the aging differences being interesting role-playing opportunities.
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mfb
post Nov 5 2006, 10:02 AM
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what isn't?!
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