 Checking the numbers, What should be changed |
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 Nov 10 2006, 09:59 AM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534  |
If you could change not a single game mechanic in SR4, but only the numbers these game mechanics use, which would you change, and why?
Example: I would change the threshold for braking encryption to 4 x rating from 2 x rating, because this brings decryption threshold back in line with availability thresholds (though both need a rule to resrtict re rolls for extended tests) Other example: I would change the damage code of an assault cannon from 10/-5 to 12/-6, because it is not lethal enough at the moment. |
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Nov 10 2006, 12:39 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
I would change the Build point ratio between skills and attributes both at character creation and in game so that its cost effective to raise skills before maxing out attributes. Both you and Frank T have come up with alternatives that are appealing to me. Your rules seem a little bit better than Frank's as the cost to increase an attribute or skill increases as the skill or attribute value increases.
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Nov 10 2006, 01:25 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
* Ammo modifiers
* Physical healing extended test interval : shifting from 1 day to 1 week. I'm okay with 2070 medical tech being able to heal someone very quickly, but I'm not with the nearly-dead average human getting back to full health after a week without any medical attention nor any medical supplies. * Multiplier for upgrading an attribute. 5x (or maybe new attribute˛) rather than 3x. |
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Nov 10 2006, 01:29 PM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, 49, 64, 82, 100...
That gets pretty high up once you figure in trolls can go up to 10 natural. Course that would shift the spending from attributes to skills pretty fast. |
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Nov 10 2006, 01:32 PM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
(Of course, you wouldn't take into account racial modifiers when upgrading your attributes : a human upgrading from 3 to 4 would pay the same price as a troll upgrading from 7 to 8 )
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Nov 10 2006, 01:46 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Cumulative cost for skills, starting at 1 BP at creation.
EG: Skill Rank 1 = 1 BP Skill Rank 2 = (1 + 2=) 3 BP Skill Rank 3 = (1 + 2 + 3=) 6 BP Skill Rank 4 = (1 + 2 + 3 + 4=) 10 BP Skill Rank 5 = (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5=) 15 BP Skill Rank 6 = (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6-) 21 BP Skill Groups would be similar, at a set of 3: Group Rank 1 = 3 BP Group Rank 2 = (3 + 6=) 9 BP Group Rank 3 = (3 + 6 + 9=) 18 BP Group Rank 4 = (3 + 6 + 9 + 12=) 30 BP Also, adding Magic to the Attribute chart: Human 1/6 (9) Ork 1/6 (9) Dwarf 1/6 (9) Elf 2/7 (10) Troll 1/5 (7) With the addition of a "Magical Prodigy" Quality (20 pts, +1 to your magic limit, as per Lucky, etc) ... That last one is nearly a new rule, more than just math. |
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Nov 10 2006, 04:05 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
Yep, that's the way I think it should be. |
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Nov 10 2006, 04:08 PM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I'd change the page numbers, just to screw with people. :)
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Nov 10 2006, 04:19 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I like, except that if you are going to do that wouldn't you double the cost of the first step like you do for karma? (I'm ok with some Skill Groups being the same cost as buying up their Skills at chargen)
So the modified is the maximum amount every no matter how many times you Initiate? Offhand I'm OK with that, although I'm NOT cool with the hit to Trolls and boost to Elves. Not just because I hate Elves either. ;) Trolls are already mage gimps (have at least one die less for their Drain stat) and Elves really don't need another stat boost. |
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Nov 10 2006, 07:17 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
there's still int + will drain based traditions. neither of those attributes are reduced for a troll. |
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Nov 10 2006, 07:21 PM
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#11
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Could we take our pick as to which mechanic to use? For example, I'd be pretty happy if I could just use the Hacking on the Fly rules (Logic + Skill) for everything and use the program numbers for something else.
-Frank |
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Nov 10 2006, 07:26 PM
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#12
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Troll Int is 1/5 (7). Will is the only Troll mental Attribute that is a 1/6(9), and Cha is a brutal 1/4 (6). :( Orcs are the ones with Int 1/6 (9) while having the lower Cha and Log. |
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Nov 10 2006, 07:30 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
I would change drain codes to divide by two after applying code modifiers instead of before.
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Nov 10 2006, 07:31 PM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
hmmm... i see... clearly i don't play trolls that often =P (that is, i don't believe i've ever even made an SR4 troll... the idea just hasn't really appealed to me yet)
yeah, that's dumb. i'd probably switch it to giving them log - 2 instead of log - 1, int - 1 personally. i see no reason why they should suffer a penalty to int, personally. |
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Nov 10 2006, 11:46 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Yup! Thus, for most, there's a hard cap of Magic 9 an, thus, Grade 9 Initiation. This puts magical areas on par with the rest of the game, rather than being utterly open-ended and uncapped. Those with Magical Aptitude could go to a 7 (10) hard cap, making them heavy hitters of hugeness. The Troll and Elf bit is gimp Troll mages a bit, who are currently only one draindie under a normal magician but who also have teh HUGE increases in other areas, and to reflect Elves' innate magical superiority ... currently, *Dwarves* are the best magicians in the game rules, something not reflected in the worldview, where Elves are commonly magicians. That extra point's just enough to make it work out for them. |
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Nov 10 2006, 11:57 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
I would change all weapon damage values to Strength + Modifier to be consistent with bows. There's no excuse to have different mechanics for different equipment, and this modification makes sure that mele weapons, bows, and firearms are balanced.
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Nov 11 2006, 12:10 AM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
What about Resonance? |
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Nov 11 2006, 12:25 AM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
One to two dice under, and yes they have huge Str and Body bonus.....which they pay through the nose for. So all you are doing is deepening the big dumb Troll stereotype. Blah. :(
:? I didn't realize that there was any presidence in canon for Elves overall to be that much more magicianly. Yes, there are the two nations. But the IE that underly those and garden variety Elves themselves are two very different things. Well I guess canon presidence besides the fact that they ARE already 1 die better than Dwarves on drain for Cha traditions and 2-4 spirits on call better than anyone. So in short they don't need it. |
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Nov 11 2006, 12:35 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
What's the matter with that? I mean. Yeah, I hear you, elves are pretty gay. But trolls are big and dumb. Nothing wrong with being reminded of that. |
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Nov 11 2006, 01:14 AM
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#20
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Well then why not just give them straight 1s? That'll remind! What, you mean that'd be overkill? Why yes, yes it would be. 8) Not to mention if you scan through the paracritters you'll find that the correspondence between Magic and mental stats somewhere in the neighborhood of r=0. |
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Nov 11 2006, 01:22 AM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Haven't even eyeballed the Technomancer stuff yet. No one's been the least bit interested in playing them. (They have radio waves that come out of their heads? Uhm. I'll just buy a deck, thanks.) If it's bottomless, then I'd probably want caps on it as well. I'll worry about that if anyone ever wants to make one. :) As for Trolls, they used to have some *serious* problems with magic, having the huge mental penalties, including a loss in Willpower, making them more vulnerable. Tho they lost THAT penalty this time around, the 1 pip magic reduction would show that their talents lie more in the physical than the magical. It isn't a HUGE loss, but enough to make the Troll Mage a bit more fair-feeling. Elves, meanwhile. are noted as having the highest rate of magical expression and, thusfar, have also had the most powerful magicians. Yes, that's mainly because of the Immortals, but, even there, the fact that Elves have so much magical power that Immortal is an *option* is telling. So, a 1 pt boost felt like it rounded them out. |
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Nov 11 2006, 02:51 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Because that would be stupid. Duh. |
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Nov 11 2006, 04:06 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517 |
I totally agree on capping magic. It needs it badly. I'm not sure I like the idea of dropping it for Trolls though. My reasoning is that if they can only exist in a moderate to high mana setting then they are inheirently magical to some degree.
On the other hand I agree with the hit to the Trolls intelligence (both) because I think that they need the balence with their high strength and body. Having a higher max for elves is not so much a problem as they are supposed to be focused more on magic. It depends on if you want to have immortal elves as a factor in your game. The higher level makes some sense for them but I would balence it out with a required moderate to severe allergy. Basically if they are more magical then they are also more vulnerable to some allergen. If Resonance is not magical (as they keep on trying to say), then how about the opposite. Lower the resonance on metahumans and raise it for humans. It doesn't work well with magic and metahumans are partially magical... |
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Nov 11 2006, 05:16 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 23-August 05 Member No.: 7,590 |
For mages, ok, maybe. But for adepts? Increasing their Magic is the only way they can get Power Points with the actual rules, so if you cap Magic at, say, 9, you completely kill the character's potential for improvement in his art. You can learn new spells without increasing your Magic, but you can't do the same with adept powers, so you'd need to provide some way to get Power Points independently of Magic. (Maybe allow adepts to increase their Power Points as if they were increasing their Magic - same cost - but without increasing their effective Magic rating...) [EDIT: I haven't played SR4 yet, so I'm not sure how useful a Magic cap would be.] |
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Nov 11 2006, 05:21 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 19-January 04 Member No.: 5,992 |
You mean like how samurai can't advance after a point? That is, without suddenly generating a big honkin' pile of deltaware with which you could just retire in the Bahamas with.
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