Capacity and Cyberwear grade - Dumpshock Forums

Capacity and Cyberwear grade

redwulf25_ci View Member Profile	Nov 10 2006, 07:37 PM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 15-December 05 Member No.: 8,075	I was thinking about the various grades of cyberware (alpha through delta) and it seems that due to more refined electronics - which thus take up less space - that they could be made to have more capacity (for limbs, eyes, ears, etc.) or take up less capacity (for add ons like increased strength or thermographic vision). What would be a good number to use? 1 or two extra capacity per grade above basic with an equal reduction for those items that take up capacity (to a minimum of 1 capacity) sounds about right to me . . .

BlackHat View Member Profile	Nov 10 2006, 07:41 PM Post #2
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180	In 3e, I believe that alpha cyberlimbs actually had LESS capacity, but I could be wrong on that. In 4e, I always figured that since the stuff that goes inside of them has to be alpha-grade too, the reduction in electronics sizes sort of cancels out and the rules work as they are. If I was going to go wit ha rule of thumb for what you want to do though, I would maybe say that since alpha-ware uses up 80% of the normal essense, have them take up 80% of the capacity as well. Seems like, after rounding up, it would be rare to see a difference, though

redwulf25_ci

Nov 10 2006, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE (BlackHat)

In 3e, I believe that alpha cyberlimbs actually had LESS capacity, but I could be wrong on that.

In 4e, I always figured that since the stuff that goes inside of them has to be alpha-grade too, the reduction in electronics sizes sort of cancels out and the rules work as they are.

If I was going to go wit ha rule of thumb for what you want to do though, I would maybe say that since alpha-ware uses up 80% of the normal essense, have them take up 80% of the capacity as well. Seems like, after rounding up, it would be rare to see a difference, though

I am assuming that the limb itself is the same size wheather it's standard or Delta grade, but the internal components of the arm (we're talking mainly about the chips and wires here not the pistons and what have you) would be smaller creating more free room. This would probably be more dramatic with eyes and ears than limbs but still . . .

Jaid

Nov 10 2006, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE (redwulf25_ci)

QUOTE (BlackHat @ Nov 10 2006, 02:41 PM)

In 3e, I believe that alpha cyberlimbs actually had LESS capacity, but I could be wrong on that.

In 4e, I always figured that since the stuff that goes inside of them has to be alpha-grade too, the reduction in electronics sizes sort of cancels out and the rules work as they are.

If I was going to go wit ha rule of thumb for what you want to do though, I would maybe say that since alpha-ware uses up 80% of the normal essense, have them take up 80% of the capacity as well. Seems like, after rounding up, it would be rare to see a difference, though

I am assuming that the limb itself is the same size wheather it's standard or Delta grade, but the internal components of the arm (we're talking mainly about the chips and wires here not the pistons and what have you) would be smaller creating more free room. This would probably be more dramatic with eyes and ears than limbs but still . . .

it's not the gears and such that are improved with better grades of cyber, based on the only information we have on what makes you lose essence.

it's the connection. that is, the deltaware cyberarm has less impact on your body, and especially the way your brain/central nervous system works. it is built to be less intrusive to how your body functions, not to more efficiently use the space within the arm.

or at least, until we have a more updated source that tells us what it is about cyberware that makes it steal your soul, we are pretty much stuck with that explanation.

Jack Kain View Member Profile	Nov 10 2006, 08:39 PM Post #5
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630	Ok here's how capacity works, If you have alphaware cybereyes all the things taking up capacity in the eye must also be alphaware. The same is true for limbs and stuff. Its written in the cyberware section that cyberware taking up capacity must be of the same grade as the cyberpart they are instailed in.

Wakshaani View Member Profile	Nov 10 2006, 11:47 PM Post #6
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629	Anyone know when the rules for secondhand/cheap Cyberware is gonna roll out? Because I really miss that stuff.

Jaid View Member Profile	Nov 10 2006, 11:56 PM Post #7
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813	i imagine that would be in augmentation. so, uhhh... sometime. it's not even into "real soon now" status (which arsenal has been for a while, and we're still waiting on that). don't hold your breath =P

Fortune

Nov 11 2006, 12:14 AM

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QUOTE (Jack Kain)

Ok here's how capacity works,
If you have alphaware cybereyes all the things taking up capacity in the eye must also be alphaware.
The same is true for limbs and stuff.

Its written in the cyberware section that cyberware taking up capacity must be of the same grade as the cyberpart they are instailed in.

I don't believe anyone disputed that. The OP is trying to work out if that Alpha stuff taking up Capacity is actually using less space than non-Alpha equivalents.

Cold-Dragon

Nov 11 2006, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE (Wakshaani)

Anyone know when the rules for secondhand/cheap Cyberware is gonna roll out?

Because I really miss that stuff.

The Cheap stuff is effectively any cyberware that was 'borrowed' from corpses that didn't need it. So long as the limb is reprogrammed or tweaked for any new user, it's fine as it is (though with every removal that's not done 'professionally' there's that risk of breaking parts and corruption and so on).

The cheap cheap stuff is probably the risky stuff - glitching cyberarms that frequently grope the use without input, cybereyes that seem to have a permanent red spot in the periphereal area, etc. Basically, the more times the same stuff is reused, the higher the chance something snaps from switching.

As far as price goes...well, a DM/Narrator/whoever can easily just put a discount sticker on it like any store.

Cold-Dragon

Nov 11 2006, 01:46 AM

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QUOTE (Fortune)

QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Nov 11 2006, 07:39 AM)

Ok here's how capacity works,
If you have alphaware cybereyes all the things taking up capacity in the eye must also be alphaware.
The same is true for limbs and stuff.

Its written in the cyberware section that cyberware taking up capacity must be of the same grade as the cyberpart they are instailed in.

I don't believe anyone disputed that. The OP is trying to work out if that Alpha stuff taking up Capacity is actually using less space than non-Alpha equivalents.

Superior Cyberwear means better parts - They use actual quality lubricant for the moving parts instead of slipping in sex jelly instead (or some other not neccessarily meant purpose slick stuff). Some parts will indeed be smaller, if they're more efficient that way, but chances are most parts aren't so lucky. When it comes to being better and stronger, it doesn't always include smaller too, sometimes better means just built better, but the same size. That would probably be the case for things like attribute boosters (str and dex) Now the parts are probably also designed to fit together better when you go to the better models, however, which would be how you get the better capacity most of the way.

Well...it's a theory anyways.

Wakshaani

Nov 11 2006, 03:28 AM

Post #11

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QUOTE (Cold-Dragon @ Nov 11 2006, 01:38 AM)

The Cheap stuff is effectively any cyberware that was 'borrowed' from corpses that didn't need it. So long as the limb is reprogrammed or tweaked for any new user, it's fine as it is (though with every removal that's not done 'professionally' there's that risk of breaking parts and corruption and so on).

The cheap cheap stuff is probably the risky stuff - glitching cyberarms that frequently grope the use without input, cybereyes that seem to have a permanent red spot in the periphereal area, etc. Basically, the more times the same stuff is reused, the higher the chance something snaps from switching.

As far as price goes...well, a DM/Narrator/whoever can easily just put a discount sticker on it like any store.

Something official was always nice, tho. :)

Like, two new grades, "Theta" and "Zeta", which makes certain that people know that they can't get "Cheap Alphaware".

Theta Grade would run about 80% of standard cost, and would collapse on a Critical Glitch. There would be small roleplaying flaws as well, natch, such as Cybereyes with a dead pixel (Just one, right HERE, and it drives me batty!) or Wired Reflexes without the 'off' switch, so that the person is always jittery, drumming fingers on tables, has shakey hands, etc.

Zeta Grade would be about 50% off, would collapse on a critical glitch, *and* require one less than normal *to* Glitch. For example, trying to jump when you have a Zeta leg would see you try your Strength (3) + Jumping (3) with a pair of 1's being enough to Glitch it. (Oo, my ankle twisted, or "Uh oh ... I think something just came lose.") A Critical Glitch could be really bad. (You land and it breaks, or you jump and it *stays behind*.) These, ofc ourse, would have even more RP hooks than Theta grade. (Good grief ... is your arm *steam* powered?!)

Zeta Grade could get *very* dangerous for certain parts. (So. Zeta Grade Synthcardium, eh? Oh my.)

Unscrupulous Street Docs (hah!) would be inclined to slip in Theta Grade cyberware if they thought that they could get away with it, pocketing the difference for pure profit. Or they could serve the lowest common denominator, such as Street Gangs, who can't really *afford* the good stuff.

Cold-Dragon View Member Profile	Nov 11 2006, 03:40 AM Post #12
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780	That could and does definitely happen if you're not careful about your Street Docs. Those ones are usually at the very bottom of course - any Runner worth his legs will try to get one with at least a half decent history to avoid nasty moments like that. Or else you get cortex bombs being triggered by accident in your head, etc. Hehe, be funny to have a Technomancer just tell a leg to 'grind' parts the wrong way, and watch it completely fall apart into various pieces. The power of the mind. XD

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