 Atlzan Killing a dragon?!, wait just a minute! |
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 Nov 14 2006, 02:58 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422  |
OK I just read Runner havens part on Distrito Caracas.
ATZLAN SACRIFICED A DRAGON? Thats like WHOA! How big of a blood spirit would that create? And how are the dragons going to retaliate. More importantly who had the balls to write that I think it is awesome! |
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Nov 14 2006, 03:15 AM
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#2
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
They executed a dragon. Not sacrificed one.
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Nov 14 2006, 03:23 AM
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#3
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I don't have my book handy but I thought I saw the word "sacrifice" come up somewhere as well. Besides, even if they "executed" the dragon, I don't see the Azzies missing a chance for it to become a sacrifice. How do you pass up an oppurtunity like that?!
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Nov 14 2006, 04:11 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
I would think sacrificing a dragon would be very noticeable on the astral level or some other means, which means if other dragons or awakened beings noticed...hell might break loose.
Course, I could be wrong! |
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Nov 14 2006, 04:14 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
OH I'm pretty sure when they killed him that hell was already opened. Reading the book they said that some major juju kept his sister out.
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Nov 14 2006, 04:38 AM
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#6
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
And it takes a hell lot to keep an angry dracoform away. Maybe the Azzies learnt a lot from Ghostwalker's strike on Denver. |
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Nov 14 2006, 06:43 AM
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#7
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Why would any dragons (other than those prsonally involved) automatically retaliate? They don't necessarily care for each other any more than metahumans do. |
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Nov 14 2006, 06:59 AM
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#8
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it's a turf thing. they may not care for each other, but they've probably got little problem banding together against lower beings who pose a genuine threat.
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Nov 14 2006, 07:08 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe, but I don't think it would be an automatic thing. I believe that it would depend on the specific dragon. Of course, Great Dragons are a different kettle of fish. In that case I can dfinitely see it as being a turf thing. |
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Nov 14 2006, 10:46 AM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 9-June 06 From: Oxford, UK. Member No.: 8,687 |
The reason why dragons would automatically retaliate is just one of pure survival.
It sends the clear message that if you mess with a wyrm, you pay the price, and a heavy price it is. It is the exact same reason why cop killers get harsher sentences : kill a cop, you'll have to pay a bigger price than you wish to - it's like a dissuasive weapon. That way, dragons restrict the number of menaces they have to keep close track of. Cheers. |
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Nov 14 2006, 12:41 PM
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#11
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Aztlan has killed many dragons. They more or less drove the feathered serpents out of their lands, and they've been at war with Amazonia over the Yukatan for a long time (and Amazonia employs dragons in it's army). Dragons have every reason to hate azzies, or more precisely, Aztechnology. Yet a lot of dragons work directly for Aztechnology. They are even more complex creatures then humans, so they don't act predictably for the bennefit of their species (just like we certainly don't). They act out of greed and their own longterm plans.
It's also worth noting that a mega corporation is way more powerful then any single dragon - eccept the ones that own mega corporations themselves. Aztechnology has made a lot of very powerful enemies, but they are sure to have a lot of powerful allies too (including dragons who might want to see their kin perish for some reason…). |
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Nov 14 2006, 02:16 PM
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#12
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Dragons were never know to get along with each other very well, so it's reasonable that they would help killing each other.
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Nov 14 2006, 02:31 PM
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#13
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Plus it has to be noted that the dragon in question was handed over by a Great Feathered serpent - Pobre, basically because his (the executee) hatred of the Azzie almost fucked up Pobre's plans.
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Nov 14 2006, 04:22 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
But dragons betraying other dragons? Thats going to rain down punishment somewhere in the future. It says some dragons have taken the execution personally (like ghostwalker).
IF ghostwalker has put back together the spirit of denver he could be building a pretty strong resitance to the powers that be behind Atzlan. Again, who could be the dragon (if there is one) behind Atzlan? That execution and powerful ward to keep out the other dragon had to be put up by a great or a powerful blood spirit, i dont see an inititory group beating spells by a dragon. |
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Nov 14 2006, 04:22 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
wasnt he going toxic too? that might be one reason he was handed over |
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Nov 14 2006, 04:31 PM
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#16
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
well, in 4th edition they could. After all, dragon's are capped too.
Theory on dragon behind Aztech, i believe is generally thought to be a corrupted feathered serpent. Pobre being toxic, sure, why not, make for a great new threat. instead of teh AAzzies fighting their neighbors down south, you get two big nasties starting to work together. Sounds like more work to me! hey , dragons pay well, right? |
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Nov 14 2006, 06:37 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Officially, Dzitbalchen was executed. Unofficially, there is little difference between an Aztlan execution and a sacrifice (source: Aztlan Sourcebook). Dzitbalchen was executed in a "public" ritual (like other high-profile Aztlan executions), though there was enough magic guarding the site to foil a rescue attempt from Dzitbalchen's sister.
If it was a blood sacrifice--and it would be hard for the Azzies to resist that--no one knows what was done with the magical power. Not yet, at least. Though there are some major things that happened in that region of the world following Dzitbalchen's execution. Many of the great dragons don't really need an excuse to hate Aztlan; they already do. Ghostwalker was no friend of Aztlan before Dzitbalchen's execution and he certainly doesn't like them any more now. But Aztlan is a force to be reckoned with; Ghostwalker can't just fly in and start attacking the place. If Great Dragons were capable of destroying Aztlan, you can bet that the draconic leaders of Amazonia would have done that already. Also, the internal dragon politics of the issue are important. Dzitbalchen was handed over to Aztlan by a dragon: Pobre. In addition, Dzitbalchen did work for Aztlan in the past, so he may not have the best reputation among dragonkind. A previous poster was right in suggesting that this probably isn't the first dragon that Aztlan has killed (though they've never killed a Great, that I'm aware of). But this is the first dragon Aztlan has ever executed. In fact, it's the first dragon ever convicted and sentenced to execution by metahumanity. This in and of itself causes division between those dragons who feel they should be above metahuman laws and those who seek acceptance in metahuman society. Oh, and there's a lot more detail on this in Shadows of Latin America, should that book ever see the light of day. |
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Nov 14 2006, 06:51 PM
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#18
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Thanks, that's what I thought I remembered, but wasn't sure of where to quote a source.
Sirrug comes to mind
*tear* *sob* *tear* |
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Nov 14 2006, 07:59 PM
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#19
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
its just like any other group or "culture". sure they may have their internal problems. but when a external problem shows up, they stand shoulder to shoulder to get rid of it. unless some idiot sell out the rest in hope of a internal rank increase when the external threat take care of the current top dog. this works for the smallest street gang to the biggest nation... |
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Nov 14 2006, 08:10 PM
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#20
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
and with dragon's, it happens very slowly...
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Nov 14 2006, 08:54 PM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I disagree that it would be an automatic response. I think that dragons (especially Greats) would be able to take a longer view on things, and not often be taunted into taking reflexive action.
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Nov 14 2006, 09:09 PM
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#22
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Like I said ... :)
I'm thinking of the Theran war and the preludes to it. Bunch of dragon's taken down, they do nothing but withdraw a bit. Theran's keep pushing, and eventuall (how many years later) the dragons react, with well placed operatives/spies deep within Thera, and destroy an entire city. |
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Nov 14 2006, 09:43 PM
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#23
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Wonder what dragons deem a bigger threat; atlantean super-magic or the military might of mankind in the 6th world? |
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Nov 14 2006, 09:44 PM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
But my point is that the longer view does not automatically still lead to retribution. And I still qualify my statements, as I have all along, with the fact that we are not talking about a Great Dragon victim. [edit] Besides, 'bunch of dragons' is not the same thing as one. I'll admit that DE brings up a good point, in that it sets a precedent when metahumans can sit in judgement of dragons, but technically Dunkleberry voluntarily subjected himself to the laws of metahumanity in his bid for presidency, and Loffie does it every day in the operation of his Corporation. This latest event is just a single step in a chain. |
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Nov 14 2006, 09:55 PM
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#25
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I agree with you there. In ED, there were , AFAIK, no plans to counter (except by Icewing and Aban) the Therans', until they kept pushing. Remember that most of the dragon's thought Dunk a fool before and after he died. "We lost a clown.No more, no less. " wasn't it? And hell, Lowfyr takes the "binding chains" and dances with them. But the way things are going, I'm thinking there will be "increased hostilities" on the way. Aztlan already hates Ghostwalker, and he is one of the traditionalists, and the one that wanted to ahve it out with the Therans. Both for Yuichotal and Aardalea, and because they destroyed (one of)his lair(s). Putting Pobre "on their side" jsut helps galvanize things IMO. Ghostwalker on one side, Amazonia on the other, and a "traitor" dragon in the middle. They did kill Sonadar a while back BTW. Was he a "great"? I don't remember. |
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