OK I just read Runner havens part on Distrito Caracas.

ATZLAN SACRIFICED A DRAGON? Thats like WHOA! How big of a blood spirit would that create? And how are the dragons going to retaliate. More importantly who had the balls to write that I think it is awesome!

They executed a dragon. Not sacrificed one.

I don't have my book handy but I thought I saw the word "sacrifice" come up somewhere as well. Besides, even if they "executed" the dragon, I don't see the Azzies missing a chance for it to become a sacrifice. How do you pass up an oppurtunity like that?!

I would think sacrificing a dragon would be very noticeable on the astral level or some other means, which means if other dragons or awakened beings noticed...hell might break loose.

Course, I could be wrong!

OH I'm pretty sure when they killed him that hell was already opened. Reading the book they said that some major juju kept his sister out.

it's a turf thing. they may not care for each other, but they've probably got little problem banding together against lower beings who pose a genuine threat.

The reason why dragons would automatically retaliate is just one of pure survival.
It sends the clear message that if you mess with a wyrm, you pay the price, and a heavy price it is.

It is the exact same reason why cop killers get harsher sentences : kill a cop, you'll have to pay a bigger price than you wish to - it's like a dissuasive weapon.

That way, dragons restrict the number of menaces they have to keep close track of.

Cheers.

Aztlan has killed many dragons. They more or less drove the feathered serpents out of their lands, and they've been at war with Amazonia over the Yukatan for a long time (and Amazonia employs dragons in it's army). Dragons have every reason to hate azzies, or more precisely, Aztechnology. Yet a lot of dragons work directly for Aztechnology. They are even more complex creatures then humans, so they don't act predictably for the bennefit of their species (just like we certainly don't). They act out of greed and their own longterm plans.

It's also worth noting that a mega corporation is way more powerful then any single dragon - eccept the ones that own mega corporations themselves. Aztechnology has made a lot of very powerful enemies, but they are sure to have a lot of powerful allies too (including dragons who might want to see their kin perish for some reason…).

Dragons were never know to get along with each other very well, so it's reasonable that they would help killing each other.

Plus it has to be noted that the dragon in question was handed over by a Great Feathered serpent - Pobre, basically because his (the executee) hatred of the Azzie almost fucked up Pobre's plans.

But dragons betraying other dragons? Thats going to rain down punishment somewhere in the future. It says some dragons have taken the execution personally (like ghostwalker).

IF ghostwalker has put back together the spirit of denver he could be building a pretty strong resitance to the powers that be behind Atzlan. Again, who could be the dragon (if there is one) behind Atzlan? That execution and powerful ward to keep out the other dragon had to be put up by a great or a powerful blood spirit, i dont see an inititory group beating spells by a dragon.

well, in 4th edition they could. After all, dragon's are capped too.

Theory on dragon behind Aztech, i believe is generally thought to be a corrupted feathered serpent. Pobre being toxic, sure, why not, make for a great new threat. instead of teh AAzzies fighting their neighbors down south, you get two big nasties starting to work together. Sounds like more work to me! hey , dragons pay well, right?

Officially, Dzitbalchen was executed. Unofficially, there is little difference between an Aztlan execution and a sacrifice (source: Aztlan Sourcebook). Dzitbalchen was executed in a "public" ritual (like other high-profile Aztlan executions), though there was enough magic guarding the site to foil a rescue attempt from Dzitbalchen's sister.

If it was a blood sacrifice--and it would be hard for the Azzies to resist that--no one knows what was done with the magical power. Not yet, at least. Though there are some major things that happened in that region of the world following Dzitbalchen's execution.

Many of the great dragons don't really need an excuse to hate Aztlan; they already do. Ghostwalker was no friend of Aztlan before Dzitbalchen's execution and he certainly doesn't like them any more now. But Aztlan is a force to be reckoned with; Ghostwalker can't just fly in and start attacking the place. If Great Dragons were capable of destroying Aztlan, you can bet that the draconic leaders of Amazonia would have done that already.

Also, the internal dragon politics of the issue are important. Dzitbalchen was handed over to Aztlan by a dragon: Pobre. In addition, Dzitbalchen did work for Aztlan in the past, so he may not have the best reputation among dragonkind.

A previous poster was right in suggesting that this probably isn't the first dragon that Aztlan has killed (though they've never killed a Great, that I'm aware of). But this is the first dragon Aztlan has ever executed. In fact, it's the first dragon ever convicted and sentenced to execution by metahumanity. This in and of itself causes division between those dragons who feel they should be above metahuman laws and those who seek acceptance in metahuman society.

Oh, and there's a lot more detail on this in Shadows of Latin America, should that book ever see the light of day.

and with dragon's, it happens very slowly...

I disagree that it would be an automatic response. I think that dragons (especially Greats) would be able to take a longer view on things, and not often be taunted into taking reflexive action.

Like I said ...

I'm thinking of the Theran war and the preludes to it. Bunch of dragon's taken down, they do nothing but withdraw a bit. Theran's keep pushing, and eventuall (how many years later) the dragons react, with well placed operatives/spies deep within Thera, and destroy an entire city.

at least one gd is already at war with the azzies, Hupla via Amazonia.

And Sirrug. Everyone forgets Sirrug!

Sirrug... how I would to see him beat some ass. I guess we will never figgure out who the mage was that held him off for those few seconds when he took out that plane. (unless it was Harley).

That's what I figured

"Ahh Big Green. Hunting the Hunter I see."

Had to be a bad ass to hold off Sirrug for 3 friggin' minutes!

Downtime Hunter is be my guess too. 3 minutes are just 60 combat rounds. Come on, that's nothing for an IE!

Okay. Apparently, I've missed a few things. I did not play SR3 (1&2 and now 4) and did not read many of the novels during the SR3 period. What is a downtime hunter?

Someone who hunts dragons during the pre-Awakening "down cycle," when they are hibernating (or something like that) due to the lack of mana. The idea first saw print in the old German Sourcebook, but the actual reference to the practice did not occur until the Aztlan sourcebook (you can search through the annotations for the reference). Additional speculation was shown in Loose Alliances with the hunter group behind the DIVE.

Maybe the guy was burning Karma until Sirrurg got tired of it and did his Twist Fate.

It takes three seconds to destroy a plane. All you need is one success of your Wreck Fixed Wing Aircraft; or Powerbolt, if you prefer.

Well that, or just break a wing off. Punching holes in it isn't going to do much good, but a plane can't fly with one wing.

the TN to get either Wreck or Powerbolt off on an airliner is 17, minimum. if you count an airliner as a "highly processed object" (and i don't see why you wouldn't), the TN is 19. a little spell defense goes a long way, against those TNs.

Two things will happen:
a) AzTech will use the magical power it likely gained by sacrificing the dragon

b) traditionalist dragons will be somewhat pissed due to a dragon falling under metahuman law. They will not necessarily retalliate (he who is weak will perish in dragon society anyway), but it will affect future dealings with AzTech. The first stone was cast long before.

LOL i read it but remebering it off hand I just can't do. I know he is in a battle with lung over the ring of fire and that both of them meet on ocasion with Bai (a chinese great dragon) to play majong.

Well the Azzies where really pissed over that whole Denver thing... I guess they're sending a message. It's simply more fuel for the fire.

Now would dragonkind retaliate? One of the GDs definately will. Even the moderates will probably throw some shadow assets that way to discourage that sort of behavior.

I personally would set up some very public assassinations. Send a message right back at them.