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> 40mm buckshot, stats! now!
mfb
post Nov 14 2006, 06:55 AM
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i don't normally do this. i don't watch movies, and then think "that's gotta go into SR". or, if i do, it's no more than a passing thought. but i just got done watching Miami Vice, and i feel it's imperative that SR be introduced to the concept of 40mm buckshot rounds. there are things in this life that a man cannot argue with. a shotgun shell with a diameter of an inch and a half is one of those things.

i've heard of these, of course. i believe they're generally used for breeching heavy doors where you don't care what happens to whoever's on the other side. i'm also fairly sure that this is designed to be used fairly close-in, so its longer-range accuracy should probably suck--maybe pistol ranges, who knows.

and, of course, the damage should be horriffic. SR3, i'm thinking something like 16D(f). maybe even just straight-out 14D--no reduced effectiveness against armor. thoughts?
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Jack Kain
post Nov 14 2006, 07:15 AM
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I doubt 40mm buckshot rounds would do more damage then an assault cannon. Or as much anti-vehicle rocket.

You might actually need an assault cannon to fire a buckshot that large.
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mfb
post Nov 14 2006, 07:20 AM
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well, keep in mind that rockets deal area damage, whereas shot rounds are point targets (ignoring SR3's retarded-ass rules for shotgun spread). assault cannon do 18D, minimum.
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Fortune
post Nov 14 2006, 07:21 AM
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I haven't seen the movie yet but ...

QUOTE (mfb)
i've heard of these, of course. i believe they're generally used for breeching heavy doors ...


Sounds something like Shock-Lock style rounds.


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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 14 2006, 07:29 AM
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It isn't all that scary actually, 27 00-buck pellets at under 900fps. You can get 18 00 pellets to over 1200fps with 12 gauge magnum or 10 gauge loads. 10D(f) is quite enough for it. The effective range would indeed suck, thanks to the low muzzle velocity and the lack of any sort of choke.
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toturi
post Nov 14 2006, 07:34 AM
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Would rather be using 40mm grenades than 40mm buckshot. I've only used it in anti-ambush drills, because the engagement ranges are too short not to get fragged by your own grenades and there is no time other than point and fire(or spray and pray).
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mfb
post Nov 14 2006, 08:15 AM
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i dunno, AE. i mean, that's 50% more lead coming in at a not-unreasonable clip. it should be somewhat more impressive, despite the lower speed. i mean, there's over one and a half times the total energy there, right?
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Butterblume
post Nov 14 2006, 08:37 AM
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In the 19th century, shotguns with a diameter of up to 2 inches were used, mainly to hunt water fowl (punt guns).
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 14 2006, 11:30 AM
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18 00 pellets at 1200fps has about 19% more KE than 27 pellets at 900fps. The greater amount of pellets doesn't hurt, but I wonder if penetration suffers: 0.33" 55-grain lead balls at under 800fps (they slow down fast) will not go through a lot of tissue.

The 18-pellet load is pretty massive, though. Maybe 11D(f) would be called for. After all, we're talking about 1000+ grains of lead.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 14 2006, 11:35 AM
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Pah, enough of this 40mm buckshot, how about grapeshot? I bet a Troll could carry around the required cannon, too.

~J
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 14 2006, 11:59 AM
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There's always the 40mm (X?)M1001 canister round (115 steel flechettes) for the Mk 19 AGL, as well as the 120mm M1028 canister round (~1150 tungsten buckshot) for the M256 tank gun.
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Serbitar
post Nov 14 2006, 12:41 PM
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fps = frames per second? what the heck?!?
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Justin Cray
post Nov 14 2006, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (Serbitar)
fps = frames per second? what the heck?!?

Or feet per second. Maybe.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 14 2006, 02:35 PM
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One frame = one foot long ;)

~J
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Ed_209a
post Nov 14 2006, 04:14 PM
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I was hoping someone would mention the Mk19 canister round. Sounds nasty at convoy ambush ranges.
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mfb
post Nov 14 2006, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
18 00 pellets at 1200fps has about 19% more KE than 27 pellets at 900fps.

seriously? here are my rough-and-ready calculations, show me where i went wrong. i'm using a single 00 pellet as my base unit of mass, since i'm not worried about specific units of measurement.

40mm round (27 00 pellets @ 900fps): (0.5*27*900)^2 = 12148 147622500
12ga round (18 00 pellets @ 1200fps): (0.5*18*1200)^2 = 10802


by that math, the 40mm round would have about 12% more KE. (ignore my ealier 1.5x figure; 3am is a bad time to test one's recall of the differences between KE and momentum.)

edit: goddamn windows
0.5*27*900*900 = 10935000
0.5*18*1200*1200 = 12960000
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 14 2006, 04:25 PM
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Exponentiation is done before multiplication. 2/3rds the mass at 4/3 the velocity equals 1.185185185... the kinetic energy.
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mfb
post Nov 14 2006, 04:31 PM
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for the love of... windows' damn calculator doesn't do exponents. editing...
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Austere Emancipa...
post Nov 14 2006, 04:33 PM
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Yeah. Who knew you'd still need arithmetic with all these computers around. :wobble:
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 14 2006, 04:36 PM
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I keep a Python shell nearby for times like that.

~J
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mfb
post Nov 14 2006, 04:37 PM
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there. 12960000/10935000=1.1851851851851851851851851851852.
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Wounded Ronin
post Nov 15 2006, 02:57 AM
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What we really need is stats for t3h HK CAWS and its tungsten shot of wonder.
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Raygun
post Nov 15 2006, 04:15 AM
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I'm pretty much positive that that conversation (as well as the current one) has been handled previously. Search time.
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Fix-it
post Nov 15 2006, 04:29 AM
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Canister Rounds and Rockets (yes, they put flechettes in aircraft-launched rockets)

were used with great effect in vietnam for getting out of ambushes, and prepping LZs. from what I've read they tended to make jungle into a lot of matchsticks. and VC into a lot of chunky salsa.
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