Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 40mm buckshot
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
i don't normally do this. i don't watch movies, and then think "that's gotta go into SR". or, if i do, it's no more than a passing thought. but i just got done watching Miami Vice, and i feel it's imperative that SR be introduced to the concept of 40mm buckshot rounds. there are things in this life that a man cannot argue with. a shotgun shell with a diameter of an inch and a half is one of those things.

i've heard of these, of course. i believe they're generally used for breeching heavy doors where you don't care what happens to whoever's on the other side. i'm also fairly sure that this is designed to be used fairly close-in, so its longer-range accuracy should probably suck--maybe pistol ranges, who knows.

and, of course, the damage should be horriffic. SR3, i'm thinking something like 16D(f). maybe even just straight-out 14D--no reduced effectiveness against armor. thoughts?
Jack Kain
I doubt 40mm buckshot rounds would do more damage then an assault cannon. Or as much anti-vehicle rocket.

You might actually need an assault cannon to fire a buckshot that large.
well, keep in mind that rockets deal area damage, whereas shot rounds are point targets (ignoring SR3's retarded-ass rules for shotgun spread). assault cannon do 18D, minimum.
I haven't seen the movie yet but ...

QUOTE (mfb)
i've heard of these, of course. i believe they're generally used for breeching heavy doors ...

Sounds something like Shock-Lock style rounds.

Austere Emancipator
It isn't all that scary actually, 27 00-buck pellets at under 900fps. You can get 18 00 pellets to over 1200fps with 12 gauge magnum or 10 gauge loads. 10D(f) is quite enough for it. The effective range would indeed suck, thanks to the low muzzle velocity and the lack of any sort of choke.
Would rather be using 40mm grenades than 40mm buckshot. I've only used it in anti-ambush drills, because the engagement ranges are too short not to get fragged by your own grenades and there is no time other than point and fire(or spray and pray).
i dunno, AE. i mean, that's 50% more lead coming in at a not-unreasonable clip. it should be somewhat more impressive, despite the lower speed. i mean, there's over one and a half times the total energy there, right?
In the 19th century, shotguns with a diameter of up to 2 inches were used, mainly to hunt water fowl (punt guns).
Austere Emancipator
18 00 pellets at 1200fps has about 19% more KE than 27 pellets at 900fps. The greater amount of pellets doesn't hurt, but I wonder if penetration suffers: 0.33" 55-grain lead balls at under 800fps (they slow down fast) will not go through a lot of tissue.

The 18-pellet load is pretty massive, though. Maybe 11D(f) would be called for. After all, we're talking about 1000+ grains of lead.
Pah, enough of this 40mm buckshot, how about grapeshot? I bet a Troll could carry around the required cannon, too.

Austere Emancipator
There's always the 40mm (X?)M1001 canister round (115 steel flechettes) for the Mk 19 AGL, as well as the 120mm M1028 canister round (~1150 tungsten buckshot) for the M256 tank gun.
fps = frames per second? what the heck?!?
Justin Cray
QUOTE (Serbitar)
fps = frames per second? what the heck?!?

Or feet per second. Maybe.
One frame = one foot long wink.gif

I was hoping someone would mention the Mk19 canister round. Sounds nasty at convoy ambush ranges.
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
18 00 pellets at 1200fps has about 19% more KE than 27 pellets at 900fps.

seriously? here are my rough-and-ready calculations, show me where i went wrong. i'm using a single 00 pellet as my base unit of mass, since i'm not worried about specific units of measurement.

40mm round (27 00 pellets @ 900fps): (0.5*27*900)^2 = 12148 147622500
12ga round (18 00 pellets @ 1200fps): (0.5*18*1200)^2 = 10802

by that math, the 40mm round would have about 12% more KE. (ignore my ealier 1.5x figure; 3am is a bad time to test one's recall of the differences between KE and momentum.)

edit: goddamn windows
0.5*27*900*900 = 10935000
0.5*18*1200*1200 = 12960000
Austere Emancipator
Exponentiation is done before multiplication. 2/3rds the mass at 4/3 the velocity equals 1.185185185... the kinetic energy.
for the love of... windows' damn calculator doesn't do exponents. editing...
Austere Emancipator
Yeah. Who knew you'd still need arithmetic with all these computers around. wobble.gif
I keep a Python shell nearby for times like that.

there. 12960000/10935000=1.1851851851851851851851851851852.
Wounded Ronin
What we really need is stats for t3h HK CAWS and its tungsten shot of wonder.
I'm pretty much positive that that conversation (as well as the current one) has been handled previously. Search time.
Canister Rounds and Rockets (yes, they put flechettes in aircraft-launched rockets)

were used with great effect in vietnam for getting out of ambushes, and prepping LZs. from what I've read they tended to make jungle into a lot of matchsticks. and VC into a lot of chunky salsa.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012