 Light Machine Gun?, Worst weapon in the game? |
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 Nov 16 2006, 07:13 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866  |
Is it just me, or are the stats for the Ingram White Night just a bit ridiculous? It is no more powerful than any of the Assault Rifles, costs more than most of them, and has doubled encompensated recoil? The Medium Machine Gun isn't much better, just adding a single point of armor piercing, taking out all of the features, but costs over twice as much. To me, this just seems really wrong. Has anyone else noticed this and/or tried to fix it?
Note, my troll tank uses the Medium Machine Gun, mostly for aesthetics. At least until he gets his hands on a Panther XXL :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 07:36 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Well it does have a built in recoil of 5(6) thats enougth to use burst fire mode with out penalty. Even with its double recoil value.
The gun can have a 100 round belt loaded in which is perfect for prolonged full autofire. Also as a heavy weapon I believe it has a longer range. The medium machine gun? yeah that has problems, But you could still instail a rating 3 gas vent system, shock pads and a tri-pod for a recoil comp of 4(6). But a Ingram White Knight firing in a narrow burst with EX-Explosive ammo would deal 10P AP -3. You'd get two bursts per initiative pass. I'd say thats much better then the panther which is single shot and must use assault cannon rounds and thus can't benfit from custom ammo like EX-Explosive gell or stick and shock. |
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Nov 16 2006, 07:45 AM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
And when you add a gyro-mount harness, you can fire full auto bursts with no penalty, even if you are running.
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Nov 16 2006, 08:49 AM
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#4
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
If you like suppressive fire, anything with less than 60 shots is not your friend. Double recoil does not hurt if you donīt get to feel any. The medium machine gun will have its day when we get our vehicle equipment back - think advanced vehicular gyroscopes. Then you get an additional AP and loose features your car did not need due to weapons mount technology.
The question is now if you are willing to invest in another skill just to use heavy weapons. |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:47 AM
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#5
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Yeah, use a gyromount. Wont hurt the aesthetics either ;).
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Nov 16 2006, 11:04 AM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
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Nov 16 2006, 12:56 PM
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#7
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Since I always figured that LMGs were 5.56 firearms like the Minimi videos AE posted generally just tried to ignore the double uncompensated recoil where possible.
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Nov 16 2006, 04:01 PM
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#8
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Pfffff. Not a Troll And look what he can do.
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Nov 16 2006, 04:22 PM
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#9
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
And a troll should have a WAY easier time doing that.
Even then, of course, that guy in the video is hardly winning any points for accuracy I'm sure, and I'd like to see him try and move at any kind of decent rate and do that. :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 05:33 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866 |
Actually, I was choosing between LMG, MMG and HMG for my troll because i didn't want to invest in Automatics skill :). I already intended for him to use a grenade launcher and, once my fixer finds one, a Panther XXL :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 06:04 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Just remember just because the XXL has a RC 1, you don't get 2 shots. ;) |
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Nov 16 2006, 06:06 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
The videos make me think I might introduce some sort of Bracing houserule, swapping reaction dice for recoil compensation.
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Nov 16 2006, 07:38 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866 |
Speaking of heavy weapons, what is the deal with the Aztechnology Striker, the disposable rocket launcher? It has an availability of 12, I think (don't have BBB with me atm), but no rocket has an availability of less than 16. So that means you can start with the launcher, but no ammo? Or does it come with a rockert, like an RPG? If so, what are the stats for the rocket?
And the reason I like the Panther XXL is that nothing short of a AV rocket is better at taking out armored vehicles, especially when the AV Assault Cannon round is revealed in Arsenal (assuming they do in fact bring it back, it was in Cannon Companion) I would also like him to upgrade to a minigun at some point. (Hey, if the governor of Minnesota can use one, so can my huge ass troll) That will provide his suppressing fire capability. Only problem is he has to decide which one to bring to a mission, as i imagine carrying a Combat Axe, Panther XXL, GE Vindicator, Gyro Stabilization, Ares Predator IV, Ruger Super Warhawk, and Heavy Armor might be a bit much, even for a troll with strength 13. About Gyro Stabilization, can you use the same mount for two weapons, or would I have to buy two seperate mounts? Edit: I don't intend to use both weapons at the same time :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 08:02 PM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The weapon most commonly referred to simply as "RPG", the Soviet RPG-7, is a reloadable launcher that can be used to fire a wide range of rockets. By "come with a rocket", you probably mean disposable anti-tank rocket weapons like the M72 LAW and the M136 AT4 -- and if the Striker is indeed disposable that means it does come with a rocket and the stats of that rocket should be built into the given range, damage, etc. (I don't have SR4.) |
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Nov 16 2006, 08:36 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Nothing to see here, move along. |
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Nov 16 2006, 09:53 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866 |
The Striker is described as disposable, but damage is listed as "by rocket/missile". So my question is, is it reusable, meaning you need to buy rockets/missiles seperately, or is it disposable and you choose which rocket/missile you want when buying it? |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:04 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Oh, ok. Sorry, can't help you there.
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Nov 16 2006, 10:09 PM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That would be my guess. :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:13 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
In order to keep things simple, its easier to say the disposable launcher can fire one rocket of your choice but the launch makes it unusable. Which is why its unusable.
Its availibily is only 12F because its alot easier to smuggle then an actual rocket. |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:16 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866 |
Isn't explosive ammunition rather unstable, even when fired from a semi-auto, or even single shot, pistol? Firing it from a Light Machine Gun, I imagine, would make it even more so, do to heat build up, etc. Also, EX ammo is on the pricy end. A belt of the stuff is about 1,000 nuyen, (don't have BBB on me atm). What I think is sad is that a Ruger Super Warhawk (6DV -2AP) with EX ammo (8DV -4AP) is one of the best anti-armored weapon you can start the game with, since it can damage a vehicle with an armor rating up to 12 + hits (remember that added damage from autofire does not affect whether or not it can get through the armor) Shotguns with slugs and sniper rifles might be better (don't have BBB on me). |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:28 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
An LMG is the largest weapon that will fit on a vehicle (or drone) weapon mount. I think it's also the only belt-fed one. That in itself makes it pretty valuable.
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Nov 16 2006, 10:42 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Which is retarded beyond comprehension. The whole point of a combat vehicle is to move heavier guns faster while absorbing more fire than a foot soldier.
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Nov 16 2006, 10:42 PM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Shadowrun (EX-)Explosive ammunition explodes because you critically glitch a roll, not because of heat or shock or anything like that. If you aren't going to glitch your attacks with the LMG more often than with a handgun, it won't get any more ammo malfunctions. |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:42 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Ex-explosive is only dangerious if your not very skilled in the firearm your using. A critical glitch is required for a backfire and even then it only deals the base damage of the weapon.
Ex-Explosive is also cheeper then assault cannon which is what I was comparing it to. Its price per shot not price per clip. EX-Explosive is 10 credits a shot. The ingram is (6DV -1) or (8DV -3) with EX explosive ammo. Thats one less then the rugar. Your going to get 2 shots per initiative pass while the rugar has one. The added damage from autofire may not effect whether or not it can get through the armor but when you already score enougth hits the target still feels the extra damage. With only a 1 hit difference, the Ingram will average far more damage over the course of a round then the rugar. |
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Nov 17 2006, 02:41 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 5-February 05 Member No.: 7,053 |
Is this REALLY a thread about the White Knight not being powerful enough? Did the OP really say "worst weapon in the game"? Are we playing the SAME game? Is this or is this not some elaborate joke designed to fry my brain?
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