What would you do? Options

[Lord Ben]

Okay, so you and two other guys have your own shadowrunning group. You decide another two guys might be useful for the mission and hire a nice tough Troll and a mage (Bob and Frank finally made it to the game that night).

Since you're an "established" group (okay, only one session) you decide to give the new guys 500ny since the run will be very simple. They agree to 500ny. It gets more difficult than anticipated as there are more guards along and there were supposed to be none. However the briefcase is retrieved by the new guys who you ask to hand it off to the Johnson since we were sort of expecting a doublecross.

New guys hand over the breifcase and get the 5k nuyen cred stick.

At this point when we tell the Troll were to meet so we can divide it up and give him his 500 he says he's taking an equal share. We explain that 500 was the cut but he refuses and says he's not showing up unless he gets an equal share. The mage is in the car with the newguy holding our phat lewt but to this point is unaware of what's going on.

What do you do?

[Ben]

do as usual: kill everyone with EX ammo 8)

[krayola red]

I would agree to his request, wait until he shows up, knock his ass out, stick 500 bucks in his pocket, grab the rest of the money, leave, and never contact him again.

Then again, I would've just offered him a fair share to begin with seeing as how it's just a game and there's no need to be a cheapskate with make believe money.

[Jack Kain]

I assume the mage has a comlink?
Call him and offer a full share if he helps retrieve the package. This will show the Troll that betrayal will not be tolerated. If the mage has a good direct combat stun spell it shouldn't be to much of a problem. Krayola red also has good ideas.

I also assume the reduced pay is because the other 2 didn't join until after the run had already started. Which is why they didn't know where to go.

[Lord Ben]

Yeah, the money is nothing. But it's a RP game so the new guy has to be the new guy for one session. I've been the F'ing new guy a few times.

I was planning on giving him an equal share after the mission when he proved himself. But then he went and demanded it...

Frankly, in the beginning I didn't think he was worth 500 even. He refused to carry a gun and would not tell us IC that he was an adept. He was just a tough Troll thug without even a simple baseball bat.

[Jack Kain]

[Lord Ben]

Well yeah, it makes sense from a RP perspective not to tell. But don't expect me to pay top dollar for simple muscle until he's proven himself.

At any rate what I did was pay the Mage 5000 to waste the other guy. He lived, but currently has a bounty on his head... Can't go letting people rip you off like that or you get a bad rep among the other Orcs.

His next PC played nice with others (until he put a cranial bomb into a different PC).

[Fortune]

Did he eventually end up pulling his weight on the mission?

More importantly maybe ... is the player going to be a regular?

If the answer to either (or both) of these is yes, then give him the equal share ... albeit begrudgingly in character, while making it clear that the only reason(s) is because he did actually earn it, and you are the bigger man, in not letting his petty powerplay come between forming a mutually-rewarding partnership. Roleplay it out, but ultimately just give it to him.

If the answer is no to either (or both) of the above questions, then see Ben's reply in the second post. ;)

[Fortune]

Or not

[fistandantilus4....]

I would normally say split the sahre, but it depends on how things went. Did the troll pull his weight? Did he make that kind of a difference to qualify for a larger share, or jsut take up space? If the latter, explain that a gun has a better range than a bat, and inform him that you would be happy to demonstrate if he doens't put down the case.

If he agress, everything is cool, perhaps they can work together again, or maybe he should make a new character.

Or perhaps just talk to the new players OOC, and explain that if he is going to be a hard ass IC, then you understand where he is coming form. But he needs to understand that you will respond appropraitely IC, and hope for no ill feelings OOC. If he's cool with it, swell. If not, well, perhaps he needs to go play That Other Game or something.

[Konsaki]

Depending on my character, I might be forgiving or there might be a burning wreck of a vehicle with two bodies inside after I'm done.
I might go even worse than that if my character is vendictive.
Say, knocking them unconsious, then tearing out the bastards' eyes. Then take them to a streetdoc and say they have enough money on a credstick to install some cheap cyber eyes and he can keep the change.

[krayola red]

Honestly, I don't see any point in killing him or messing him up. Given the nature of how rumors are spread, that could just as easily nail you with a reputation for backstabbing your teammates as it could for giving you street cred as someone not to be messed around with. In fact, I would say the former is probably more likely than the latter.

[Charon]

500 nuyen?

Did you even cover the cost of his ammo?

[Jack Kain]

[Charon]

Personnally, I'd have offered a full share anyway.

Now, you offer 500 nuyen most likely telling him it's a cakewalk. Instead he get shot at, then has to assume the risk of the double cross when you send him alone to meet the Johnson.

If that guy was a PC, he'd take away with the whole pay 80% of the time.

Give the guy his fullshare. Sounds like he deserve it.

[Jack Kain]

[Lord Ben]

Yeah, he was going to get his full share. Until he started telling us what to do and withholding the goods from us. If he'd have turned over the chip and then asked for an equal share and stated his case that'd be different. Negotiation is one thing, backstabbing us is another... :)

Besides, the answer should be the same whether it's a PC or NPC.

[Jack Kain]

[Charon]

[Lord Ben]

Background that should have no bearing on IC actions:

The player of the Troll is one who in D&D and other such games loves to be the theif who steals from party members. In Shadowrun I figured when he requested to drop the package off he'd try to take some of our money. IE, ask for more for a good job and keep the change himself. However I played it off IC as letting him take the risk of a doublecross. He didn't disappoint but instead of stealing untraceable money or pawning spell foci off a dead mage he withheld the credstick and demanded a bigger share. So I put a hit on him.

He's never been a PC to hesitate with interparty theiving, and I've never hesitated dishing out a well deserved stabbing. I was just curious how much metagaming other groups went through to prevent interparty violence.

[Jack Kain]

The picked up the package as a whole team did the work to geting a hold of it. And there was no mention of any trouble after the package was retrevied. OTHER then the troll PC backstabing the group.

All we know is that the new guys happend to pick up the package after the dust settled. There's nothing about them taking on combat the rest of the group wasn't equally exposed to.

He did deserve his ful share until he decided to backstab the party and hold all the pay ransom.

[Charon]

We play it straight from the start.

I've never seen a PC accept less than a full share of the pay if he was taking a full share of the risk. "New guy" or not.

Let's not be silly here, if one party is getting screwed (500 nuyen, come on!) from the start, it gives him pretty much license to try to screw back.

And saying you were going to make it right afterward is no help. Only slave mentality leads a man to work for almost nothing while hoping that his master will make it up to him in the end.

Basically, you get what you pay for. Offering 500 nuyen to someone to perform a criminal activity can only lead to two things ; Someone who laughs in your face or someone who isn't gonna do right by you. And why should he? You ain't doing right by him by offering him crumbs to risk his life.

[Lord Ben]

Basic rundown:

Package moving from airplane to two security cars. We needed the package. We came up in two cars. 3 guys who went to prison together in one car dealing with the security teams, new guys in the second car. New mage providing mage support, troll thug into the airplane to get the breifcase since he doesn't use guns and the airplane was a smallish private jet.

We duke it out with security teams, he comes out with breifcase, both cars peel off and split up. He offers to make the dropoff himself, he withholds money as a negotiating tactic. I pay money to have him force 12 manaballed as my counteroffer.

[Charon]

Again ; offer fair money up front.

Then you either don't get this mess to start with. Or if you do, you have a fair case that he is untrustworthy.

As it is, by screwing him on the money upfront, you are both evenly shady.

And saying you were going to make it right is pointless because now we'll never know, will we? And nobody seriously expect a cheap bastard to grow magnaminous at the end of the working day.

---

And accepting to let a new member to deliver the package and pick up money alone is just downright silly even if you did offer fair money. But after screwing him up front, it's plain moronic. It's like begging for that kind of mess.

When I play I am always fair with new guys upfront. That doesn't man I trust them upfront.

[Lord Ben]