 Lasb - Latin America Sourcebook, LASB news and information. |
 Aug 18 2003, 01:53 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992  |
"May I have your attention please..."
If you're Latin American and you can commit yourself to a long-term project, mail me at jwkimgoyret@yahoo.com for more details. Link to the old South America SB thread "Thank you for your cooperation" 8) |
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Aug 18 2003, 03:09 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Doh! Forgot to say: post any doubt here, erven if you aren't from Latin America.
Need... coffee... :sleepy: |
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Aug 18 2003, 09:20 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 18-August 03 From: Atlanta Member No.: 5,512 |
Well, the pretty much covered my bit of South America in the Aztechnology book. Which country does "South America" start in? Panama?
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Aug 19 2003, 11:50 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
Panama no longer exists, annexed by Aztlan like everything down to the middle of Bolovia (where it bumped into Amazonian troops). So technically, Aztlan is both a North American and a South American country, making the use of 'Latin America' more exact. the more time pass, the more it's likely Aztlan had to be covered anew in such sourcebook. The Aztlan SB is getting old and unavailable. I admit I'm really curious to see what people could find to explain how Aztechnology can effectively owns and operates Embraer, given the feelings of the Amazonian government has for them. |
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Aug 19 2003, 11:54 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Actually Aztlan only goes as far as Colombia (mentioned in "Shadows of the Underworld" and latest info is in "DotSW") where a section of the country still remains "independent" as a buffer zone between Aztlan and Amazonia. Aparently the same goes for Venezuela only it's mostly in the hands of Amazonia.
Regardless RedKnightSpecial you should contact Jong just in case, afterall this is a fan project. You never know. |
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Aug 19 2003, 11:59 AM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
ooops... I meant Bogota not Bolovia. Bolovia is not even a country... at best a mix between a country and an Italian sauce. |
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Aug 19 2003, 01:45 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Embraer-Dassault created an airplane (somewhere in Rigger 1, IIRC). Aztechnology owns Dassault (Corporate Download), not Embraer (AFAIK there are no other canon references to it). But yes, we have our ideas :P |
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Aug 19 2003, 02:55 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
South America?
Let's see...... I'm sure of Aztlan ( Panama and a healthy chunk of Colombia ) Peru ( Where o where have the Japanese gone ) Chile Amazonia French Guianna ( corporate park surrounded by Amazonia ) Caracas ( city state that is all that's left of Venezuela ) Argentina Possible Equador ( survival likely, soone nearby who could have invaded it, buffered by Colombia and Peru from Amazonia and Aztlan, Is NOT land-locked ) Bolivia ( land-locked with Amazonia as a neighbor. Chances of survival? Not good. Could have merged with Argentina for protection, but I doubt it ) Paraguay (read Bolivia) Uruguay ( slightly better boat then Bolivia and Paraguay. But that I never read anything about it suggests it merged with Argentina or got swallowed by Amazonia ) |
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Aug 19 2003, 04:00 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Bolivia is canon, thanks to the Underworld SB and YotC.
This is the part where I suggest people they should read about the Paraguay Vs. The Triple Alliance War and the UK's interference in Uruguay as perfect explanations on why these two countries were never swallowed in Real Life. |
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Aug 19 2003, 04:58 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
Rigger 3 says Embraer is a subsidiary of Aztechnology. Embraer-Dassault association has also been made on two military choppers in SOTA:2063. |
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 Aug 25 2003, 11:21 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 326 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Vigo (Spanish Kingdom) Member No.: 1,446 |
What's so special about Embraer (don't own any Rigger book) that it looks like such a bitch to have to find a reason for it to be propperty of Aztech?
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Aug 26 2003, 03:16 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 31-July 03 Member No.: 5,185 |
EMBRAER is a major Aircraft supplier in Brazil, they have civilian and military models. I looked into the EMBRAER website and found this line "A leading group of European aerospace companies - Dassault Aviation, EADS, Snecma, and Thales - jointly owns another 20 percent", another 60% is owned by Brazilian interests, and the rest is publicly traded. So that's where they get the Dassault/EMBRAER connection. Now as to what happens to EMBRAER in the Shadowrun world I have no idea.
Hope that clarifies things a little. |
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Aug 26 2003, 07:40 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
The big issue is that those Brazilian interests include a fair chunk owned by the government. Now, who do you think owns those shares in 2060? And who is their worse enemy? Now how do you think the former feels about the latter owning a part of their corporation according to canon SR?
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Aug 26 2003, 02:10 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
My biggest concern is more the fact that all of Embraer production facilities are in Brazil. Outside they only have commercial offices and technical suport services (and maybe the explanation is there, they kept the name and some stuff, but the company is only a shadow of what it was). The last entry about Amazonia in Dragons of the Sixth World (page 84-86) suggests corporations who don't play with the local rules are banned. If they don't ban Aztechnology, I don't really see how that threat could be taken seriously by any other megacorporations. I think there's enough at some point to justify an explanation.
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Aug 26 2003, 02:19 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Don't have Rigger 3 or SotA: 2063 (yet...), so I didn't know about that. Thanks! Other than that, I think Synner has pretty much explained why is the Embraer/Dassault mess interesting. |
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Aug 26 2003, 02:34 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
Damn, I must be getting old... To complement what said above, my goo' old Corporate Download clearly says (page 48) that Amazonia deny access to Aztechnology for business.
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Aug 26 2003, 07:01 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 31-July 03 Member No.: 5,185 |
Well Synner, you are wrong about the Brazilian government owning a chunk of EMBRAER (Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica S.A.). EMBRAER along with a lot of state owned companies were privatized during the 90's. Here's what they say "Based in São José dos Campos, Brazil, Embraer was founded in 1969 as a government initiative and then privatized in 1994. The company currently employs over 11,000 people and is publicly traded on the New York and São Paulo Stock Exchanges. Brazilian interests - investment conglomerate Cia. Bozano and pension funds PREVI and SISTEL - control 60% of the voting shares."
So EMBRAER is a public company, which to me means that EMBRAER is open game to be gobbled up by any other corporation. |
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Aug 26 2003, 08:13 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Sorry to break it to you Artemus, but you are wrong. The company was privatized in the mid-90's but a chunk of about 20% non-traded shares remain in the Brazilian government's hands. This is not unusual in South America or in Europe for that matter. Please note that at no point did I say they were the majority shareholder or owner of the company. Nobody said Aztechnology couldn't have bought it up. We're saying is that it creates a nice little complication on the board of Embraer.
As NMAth has pointed out EMBRAER keeps its production facilities in Brazi, this is in no small part thanks to the benefits in tax cuts and other financial incentives that were part of the privatization deal. The government at the time tried to retain enough of a position in the company to affect any decision that might entail cutbacks, layoffs or closing of facilities in Brazil which the company might make after privatization and go off in search of greener pastures. |
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Aug 26 2003, 11:21 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 326 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Vigo (Spanish Kingdom) Member No.: 1,446 |
:eek: :eek: I see where is the problem!!!! Aren't these situations lovely? :love:
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Aug 27 2003, 04:33 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Yup. And it's not even the most "lovely"... :evil:
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Aug 27 2003, 11:05 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 27-August 03 Member No.: 5,547 |
Still needing some help?
I live at Brazil and might help with Amazonia stuff, even though i don't understand too much about SR 3(I.E. No sourcebooks, but some knowledge) |
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Aug 28 2003, 04:16 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
Mail me if you're interested.
Since quite a few people have been asking around the last few days, I'll save myself (and them) some time and post here part of the information I ask for when making first contact: Full Name? Age? Nationality? Residence? Time playing RPGs? Which ones? Time playing Shadowrun? SR books & novels you own/read? (this helps us know your canon knowledge so that we can help you) Are you able to commit yourself to a long-term project? Which country are you interested in writing for? Any persoanl experience with that country and/or Latin America? Where did you hear about us? |
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Sep 2 2003, 05:52 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 243 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Abu Dhabi Member No.: 318 |
Simple. ORO buys 65% Embraer in 2006-2009 or some such time in a shady hostile takeover. ORO relocates the company to Aztlan. Later, during the nationalisation of industry, Aztechnology declared an enforced buyout of the company, a landmark decision, since in most places and enforced buyout can only occur when an entity own ~95% of a company. To add insult to injury, Aztland paid a nominal amount of money to Amazonian government, citing a marked devaluation of the companies share portfolio - Aztechnology had stripped the parent company Embraer of all its assets and distributes them across its corporate portfolio. Aztlan government makes such arrangements legal. As most of the assets had been relocated to Aztlan, there was nothing that Amazonia could do short of an invasion as it had no physical access to the company assets. When the omega order was handed down by the Corporate Court, Amazonia joined in and wreaked destruction on many high-capital targets. Or something like that. Don't have the books with me to see if it'll fit into canon. |
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Sep 2 2003, 11:07 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 326 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Vigo (Spanish Kingdom) Member No.: 1,446 |
Just wanted to note that, IIRC, the Omega Order has never really been used, it's just as an advise of what could happen if someone touched what shouldn't be touched: the bottom line. As for Jong, you start to look like an inquisitor with so many questions!! :D Everything's going fine with the project? |
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Sep 3 2003, 01:01 AM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,759 Joined: 11-December 02 From: France Member No.: 3,723 |
Moving assets out of the country is also the only reasonable explanation I found, which is not so reasonable when you consider the cost. Aeronautic industry requires a bit skilled labor, heavy equipment and large facilities (two sites >200,000m² for Embraer). Then it probably happens before Aztechnology acquires Dassault and Hawker-Siddeley (that one has another story...) or that would be a near-complete waste of money just for a brand name. I was curious about that state ownership thing so I dig a few info on Embraer shareholders (easy, they give it on their website). According to them, the Brazilian government only owns 0.8 of the common stock, but by-laws, they also got a "golden share" which allow them to veto any decision regarding Embraer military stuff and any transfer of share control (as well as changing the company's name or logo). Of course, they can also veto the modification of the article that grant them the veto. Then only the common stock gives vote. The current chart gives 0.8% for the Brazilian government, 20% to Cia Bozano (a Brazilian financial group), 20% to PREVI and 20% to SISTEL (two Brazilian pension funds), 20% to a group of French aerospace companies (Dassault, EADS, Thales and SNECMA) and 19.2% floating on Sao Paulo Stock Exchange. You can buy much more preffered stock on Sao Paulo and New York stock exchanges but that won't give you any vote right. I'm no expert but I'd say a hostile takeover is impossible in that situation. It can even become a shareholder without the government agreement. The same for some Embraer-Dassault military aircrafts that could fall under the golden share veto. So obviously the situation changed in some way at some point before 2034. |
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