FAQ Has Arrived, ... Get your 4th encounter here |
FAQ Has Arrived, ... Get your 4th encounter here |
Dec 7 2006, 04:15 PM
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#76
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I like the change to ammunitions. They're no longer a no brainer, although the weakening of Ex-Ex, Gel, and Flechette seems to push Stick-n-shock to the top (at least in my nonmurderous opinion).
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Dec 7 2006, 04:20 PM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 4-December 06 From: Chicago, IL Member No.: 10,193 |
Maybe they'll add something like overclocking your hotsim when the aug book comes out to allow for more matrix actions.
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Dec 7 2006, 04:21 PM
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#78
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
I would like to change ”SnS” ammo so that it only changes the weapons AP to ˝ Impact – that would take into account the different calibers of weapons as well. Even if the shot only “sticks” to the target it is a lot more kinetic energy in a Ruger Super Warhawk than a tiny holdout.
This way the ammunition wouldn’t be too extreme. |
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Dec 7 2006, 04:21 PM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 4-December 06 From: Chicago, IL Member No.: 10,193 |
Yeah, Stick-n-Shock in an Ingram Smartgun seems the most efficient gun/ammo combination. |
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Dec 7 2006, 04:26 PM
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#80
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
The damage from SnS is independent of the kinetic energy. It's all wrapped up in the electric shock.
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Dec 7 2006, 04:30 PM
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#81
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
My point was that there is still kinetic energy from the impact of the bullet, it doesn't just stop gently and sticks - gunpowder charge is still used and a caliber fitting the gun is also used. The energy part is the armour mod and electrical secondary effects. Instead of using a fixed charge across the board it is a modification of the weapons usual stats. Sorry, bad description. I meant that depending on the caliber the electrical charge would also be smaller - thus one uses the weapons base damage instead and adds an armour modification and secondary effects. |
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Dec 7 2006, 04:34 PM
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#82
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Inconsistency. Why should a drone use Pilot, when a rigger uses the Response of the drone? Thats like saying: A rigger jumped into a drone uses the drones Sensor, but the drone itself does note use its own Sensor, but Pilot. This would be inconsistent and anti streamlined. |
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Dec 7 2006, 04:34 PM
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#83
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
I like the FAQ.
Now when do we start submitting questions for the next version? |
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Dec 7 2006, 05:16 PM
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#84
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Thanks for the FAQ, FanPro. I was disapppointed to see the Initiative passes in AR ruling. The ruling makes sense, but the current situation is bad for game balance in my opinion. 3 meat-body-speed initiative passes is well within the reach of a starting hacker, and completely eliminates personal danger in cybercombat. A hacker running hot sim merely has to switch modes (Free Action) when cybercombat begins to become immune to the effects of black ice, black hammer, and all dumpshock. All they lose is the 2 dice hot sim bonus. Where did the risk go? How is this fair to technomancers?
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Dec 7 2006, 05:31 PM
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#85
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
with a rigger in control, its just like doing VR hack jobs. your limited by the response time of the hardware rather then how fast the programming can understand and react to the environment. but when the pilot code takes over, just trowing fast hardware at the job may not alway be the best solution as code could still get confused about something a rigger would just go "to hell with procedure, fire!" about. |
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Dec 7 2006, 05:34 PM
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#86
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
My thoughts exactly, and even if a TM were able to get those extra IP in AR, they are still considered in Hot SIM status due to their brain being the commlink... :sleepy: |
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Dec 7 2006, 05:35 PM
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#87
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
thats how i read it to. but that leads to one having to track two response levels for the agents. the internal one, going by their pilot rating and the comlink. and the external one, going by the comlinks response and system. |
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Dec 7 2006, 05:39 PM
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#88
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
I think his point is that Money comes, and Money goes, but Karma keeps building. Karma is sneaky that way. And he's right. A lot of GM's keep a closer grip on the cash flow than the karma flow. I'm guilty of it myself, and I love cyber. Part of the problem is that to upgrade Cyber is very expensive, traditionally. Upgrading your basic cyber to alpha ware, or your alphaware to betaware, or god forbid bioware, just so you can squeeze in a fraction more capability, requires enough cash outlay to fully kit out several other members of your team with top of the line non-cyber gear of all types. I've been playing around with the system, and looking at characters people have posted: Who are you more likely to see at character generation with bioware initiative boosts (Adept or Sam)? Answer: Adept, as far as I can tell. The Sam is more likely to go with wired for financial reasons in character generation - he wants more than 1 piece of cyber, if he considers himself a street samurai. The adept on the other hand has much fewer finanial obligations and the bioware is a signiicant power point discount over his own way of handling initiative boosts. Now, how likely is it for the Sam to get that nice bioware upgrade to the tune of a quarter-million-plus nuyen in game? This is the worst case scenario... but this is what the samurai's equivalent of initiation is. Magical types continuously build up with karma, and eventually initiate - usually as soon as possible. Cyber types have a harder time upgrading. Because if the team has gotten enough money that the cyber-folks can upgrade at all, what have the other members of the team done with that huge amount of money? We are talking about tens to hundreds of thousands of bucks here. Anyway, enough ranting. to answer your question: In theory, no. In practice, yes. For it to work in practice, he'd have to cut back karma awards severely over the long term, or increase cash awards past what might seem reasonable based on the finances of the other characters. Possible the best idea is to implement a cash <-> karma system, with oversight, of course. |
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Dec 7 2006, 05:52 PM
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#89
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Worst. Rule. Ever. (well, ok, not worse ever, there has been worse, but this is bad.) It wasnt like that in SR3....the stock Sam had them both. In SR4, I will not be touching this with a ten foot pole. Im middle ground, i do love playing mages and magically active characters, but i also love sammies and mundanes, depending on my mood, and the nerfing they get is a bit extensive. I am, tho, very happy to see when Arsenal and Augmentations come out, that makes me a happy person. :D |
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Dec 7 2006, 05:59 PM
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#90
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
The clarification on Recoil Compensation makes the option of dual wielding guns much more attractive too.
With the spending of 5 bp for ambidexterity, you can dual wield guns with RC 2 or 3 and fire short bursts from each. Using a standard assault rifle, even with Gas Vent 3 and a Shock Pad, you only have RC 4. Firing a short burst (-2) and then another short burst (-3) will result in a -1 penalty on the first shot. Firing a short burst with one gun (-2) and then another gun (-2) when both have RC 3 is a much more productive option. |
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Dec 7 2006, 06:04 PM
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#91
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
Yeah. The more RC each weapon has, the more attractive it becomes.
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Dec 7 2006, 06:08 PM
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#92
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Suddenly, it becomes *much* more obvious why the White Knight is a better weapon than the Alpha.
I foresee any number of trolls explaining to the GMs how they plan to dual wield White Knights and fire two long wide bursts each pass. |
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Dec 7 2006, 06:58 PM
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#93
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
That's the first observation that I put in my thread on the hacking portion of the FAQ. Aside from the interval for Probing the Target, VR just isn't faster anymore. I pointed out the line they'll want to delete from the book next version of the errata.
This is Shadowrun, it's not as big of an assumption as you think. |
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Dec 7 2006, 07:11 PM
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#94
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Still more money than I'd prefer to toss downrange at full auto on a regular basis. |
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Dec 7 2006, 07:13 PM
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#95
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
SnS seems more like a SA type ammo, where you get more 'bang for your buck'. |
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Dec 7 2006, 07:28 PM
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#96
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 4-December 06 From: Chicago, IL Member No.: 10,193 |
Eh, your best bet is to use a wide burst with them. |
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Dec 7 2006, 07:36 PM
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#97
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
It seems like the difference between hackers and technomancers has been set. Sprites have become much better than agents so expect TM characters to take even more advantage of that. Also, do IC act the same way as agents in that active program use counts against their node? Why would a security team use IC as opposed to hackers? Seems like any intrusion would cause massive slowdowns.
Also like that threading doesn't give -2 to the threaded program and that is doesn't take an action. Makes TMs much better now that I know that. I have to agree with OneTrikPony. There is no reason to nerf cyber characters the way they did. They made it possible for adepts to completely mimic a street sam at less opportunity cost. A sam has limited resources (Essence) which can never be expanded. An adept doesn't. The only way a sam can improve is by shrinking individual slices of the pie, whereas the adept can enlarge the pie. Also money awards are more likely to get limited in game because they are more unbalanced than karma awards. If you increase the money award to try and have sams keep pace: riggers and hackers suddenly have top-of-the-line gear, and mages and adepts, who normally can't afford everything the player wants in terms of gear because starting cash is usually so small, can now afford all those things. Not to mention the mage has better earnings potential as a result of the return of the talismongering/enchanting rules. In my opinion it is no wonder that William Gibson doesn't like shadowrun. It's not cyberpunk anymore. I'd say it's more like Rifts than Cyberpunk. |
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Dec 7 2006, 07:37 PM
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#98
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Yeah, that's not a good ruling, I don't know where it came from. --- In the broader spectrum however, I don't full agree with a lot of the cybernetics analysis that has been going on. Sure, as a magician you can be a street sam by taking a bunch of buff spells and binding a bunch of spirits of Man to sustain them on you - but now you're talking about glowing like a nuclear lightbulb all the time, and it doesn't work in a heavy background count (your Force 4 Increased Reflexes spell ends as soon as you hit a rating 4 domain or mana ebb). But the sticking out magically is a big deal. Magical security doesn't normally trigger on non-magical entrants, so your street sam is actually able to walk through wards and watchers just fine. Remember, Shadowrun isn't about bringing the MOST FORCE to the table, because you can't do that. The corps can hire deputies faster than you can kill them all. The goal is to bring enough force in quiet enough that you can beat anything already there and then escape before backup happs. Magical trails from spellcasting are a BIG DEAL, and really hurt the party in a lot of circumstances. Remember, any mundane character can have a truck filled with hundreds of kilograms of plastic explosives drive into an enemy installation and detonate. That's more damage than a powerball hurled by a great dragon and you don't have to be anything special to do that. The problem is that while that is overwhelming force, it's also usually pointless. That, and I've seen a lot of street samurai who can regularly blast through two or three Force 5 spirits in a turn. However, it is definitely true that Street Samurai don't have enough things to slavor over right now. This is largely because Street Magic is out and Augmentation is not. While I personally am not super jazzed by the prospect of being a full-conversion cyborg, I've been doing some heavy statistical analysis and the Augmentation Hatchetman goes through a Force 10 spirit in an initiative pass. -Frank |
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Dec 7 2006, 07:39 PM
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#99
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
You don't have to glow like a light bulb if you take that new metamagic technique. Not to mention your body doesn't set off every single MAD/MM scanner that it passes (and they are very cheap so should be just about everywhere).
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Dec 7 2006, 07:43 PM
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#100
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
And of course you're jumping to conclusions before FanPro puts out the two core books fundamentally geared towards the augmented mundane... but nah, you're probably right.
I think you need to reread the limits of "that new metamagic technique" and also figure in that it's an advanced metamagic which means you need to initiate at least twice to get it. |
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